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To: kosta50
So, the question remains, why do men continue to sin?

Because no man is perfect but Christ. As Paul said very clearly, if we say we have no sin, we are a liar and the truth is not in us.

And look around. Do you see anyone who is without sin? I don't.

What purpose does it serve?

I'll ask God when I see Him. Until then, I can only speculate according to Scripture that the "purpose sin serves" is to continue to facilitate the display of God's mercy in those He graces with faith in Christ, and the display of God's perfect judgment in those without faith.

No, my eyes were opened and all I saw was man-made superstition and fantastic tales.

And yet you continue to defend the most superstitious and fantastic of tales which are so clearly outside of the written word, namely the veneration of Mary, the apostolic priesthood, the fiction of the mass, etc. There's a long list.

I do understand your hesitation to accept the declaration of "I know I am saved."

Seems to me it's logical to say "I know I am saved because in my heart I love Christ above all else." I believe people can perceive that validity in themselves.

Some may perceive incorrectly, but that doesn't negate the fact that others are truly experiencing their salvation as real and effectual.

Whereas to say "I know there is a God," is a less certain statement. We have a reasonable certainty that there is a God by faith, but it's not possible to say "I KNOW 100% that there is a God."

So from my perspective, it's correct and believable to say "Assuming there is a God (an assumption which I embrace,) according to the word of God and my own experience, I believe and therefore I know that I am saved."

Ultimately, our life will either affirm our belief or it will not. If we're brought down by life and made weary and alone, it may be difficult to see the truth of Christianity. But if, during life's trials, our faith literally sustains us and eases our way through the bad times and lifts us even higher during the good times, then that is a type of proof in itself. When I first became convinced of things, it was only as I looked back that I saw God there all along. And only then was I able to anticipate God in the future.

And so far, He's been there. I don't ask for more. I don't need His body in the wafers. I don't need "another Christ" beyond the "only" Christ. I don't need a "mother of the universe" or a "co-redeemer" or other dead saints to plead my case. I don't need any of that. All I need is the word of God and His Spirit. The first I know I have; the second I believe I have.

2,939 posted on 02/02/2011 4:15:16 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
[why do men continue to sin?] Because no man is perfect but Christ.

So, when does one become perfect, and if so does that mean divine?

I can only speculate according to Scripture that the "purpose sin serves" is to continue to facilitate the display of God's mercy in those He graces with faith in Christ, and the display of God's perfect judgment in those without faith.   

You mean God makes sure everyone sins so the recipients of his grace can either always feel unworthy of it, and the damned reminded of what awaits them?

[No, my eyes were opened and all I saw was man-made superstition and fantastic tales.] And yet you continue to defend the most superstitious and fantastic of tales which are so clearly outside of the written word, namely the veneration of Mary, the apostolic priesthood, the fiction of the mass, etc. There's a long list.

You must have me confused with someone else. I never defended the veneration of Mary. To the contrary, I was revolted by it while still a practicing Orthodox Christian.

The apostolic priesthood is not a superstition, and neither is the liturgy. The liturgy is worship.  Now, you may question the efficacy of the sacraments as empty rituals, but the liturgical service is no more superstitious than the belief that man can live for three days  inside of a belly of a large fish and tell about it!

I find it disingenuous for any believer to make fun of someone else's belief system as "superstitious" as if it did not apply to either! Kettle calling the pot black.

Some may perceive incorrectly, but that doesn't negate the fact that others are truly experiencing their salvation as real and effectual.

Provided there is such a thing as "salvation," I would say you are spot on.

Whereas to say "I know there is a God," is a less certain statement. We have a reasonable certainty that there is a God by faith, but it's not possible to say "I KNOW 100% that there is a God."

When people are faced with that uncertainty they either accept it as a mystery or they make the leap of faith and choose to believe. That's fair.

So from my perspective, it's correct and believable to say "Assuming there is a God (an assumption which I embrace,) according to the word of God and my own experience, I believe and therefore I know that I am saved."

How can you "know" anything based on an assumption? Another example would be to say "it seem that we can reasonably affirm that we feel healthy," but we can't know know it.

Ultimately, our life will either affirm our belief or it will not

You are right. I agree.

If we're brought down by life and made weary and alone, it may be difficult to see the truth of Christianity.

Yet it is usually the poor and the disadvantaged who flock to churches because that is the only hope they have. I disagree that loneliness and a school of hard knocks necessarily drives people away from faith in Christ. I think many who have never been loved by anyone have experienced love in Christ.

 But if, during life's trials, our faith literally sustains us and eases our way through the bad times and lifts us even higher during the good times, then that is a type of proof in itself.

Yes, many make that association. It seems to work for them.

When I first became convinced of things, it was only as I looked back that I saw God there all along. And only then was I able to anticipate God in the future.

I used to feel that way, maybe to appease my guilty feelings. I wish I could say the same thing, even though I have been incredibly blessed, fwiw.

And so far, He's been there. I don't ask for more. I don't need His body in the wafers. I don't need "another Christ" beyond the "only" Christ. I don't need a "mother of the universe" or a "co-redeemer" or other dead saints to plead my case. I don't need any of that. All I need is the word of God and His Spirit. The first I know I have; the second I believe I have.

That is is your faith and I respect that. Thank you for sharing it.

3,023 posted on 02/02/2011 11:20:10 PM PST by kosta50 ("Spirit of Spirit....give me over to immortal birth so that I may be born again" -- pagan prayer)
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