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To: metmom
As early as the second century we have the witness of St. Justin Martyr for the basic lines of the order of the Eucharistic celebration. They have stayed the same until our own day for all the great liturgical families. St. Justin wrote to the pagan emperor Antoninus Pius (138-161) around the year 155, explaining what Christians did:
On the day we call the day of the sun, all who dwell in the city or country gather in the same place.
The memoirs of the apostles and the writings of the prophets are read, as much as time permits.
When the reader has finished, he who presides over those gathered admonishes and challenges them to imitate these beautiful things.
Then we all rise together and offer prayers* for ourselves . . .and for all others, wherever they may be, so that we may be found righteous by our life and actions, and faithful to the commandments, so as to obtain eternal salvation.
When the prayers are concluded we exchange the kiss.
Then someone brings bread and a cup of water and wine mixed together to him who presides over the brethren.
He takes them and offers praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy
Spirit and for a considerable time he gives thanks (in Greek: eucharistian) that we have been judged worthy of these gifts.
When he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all present give voice to an acclamation by saying: 'Amen.'
When he who presides has given thanks and the people have responded, those whom we call deacons give to those present the "eucharisted" bread, wine and water and take them to those who are absent.
The liturgy of the Eucharist unfolds according to a fundamental structure which has been preserved throughout the centuries down to our own day. It displays two great parts that form a fundamental unity:
  1. the gathering, the liturgy of the Word, with readings, homily and general intercessions;
  2. the liturgy of the Eucharist, with the presentation of the bread and wine, the consecratory thanksgiving, and communion
The liturgy of the Word and liturgy of the Eucharist together form "one single act of worship".

The Eucharistic table set for us is the table both of the Word of God and of the Body of the Lord.

Is this not the same movement as the Paschal meal of the risen Jesus with his disciples? Walking with them he explained the Scriptures to them; sitting with them at table "he took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them. Lk 24:13-35

On the Road to Emmaus
 13 Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles[a] from Jerusalem. 14 They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. 15 As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; 16 but they were kept from recognizing him.

 17 He asked them, “What are you discussing together as you walk along?”

   They stood still, their faces downcast. 18 One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, “Are you the only one visiting Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?”

   19 “What things?” he asked.

   “About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. 20 The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; 21 but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. 22 In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. 24 Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but they did not see Jesus.”

 25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

 28 As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus continued on as if he were going farther. 29 But they urged him strongly, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over.” So he went in to stay with them.

 30 When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32 They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”

 33 They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together 34 and saying, “It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon.” 35 Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.


1,148 posted on 01/28/2011 12:44:29 AM PST by Cronos
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To: Cronos
So, you admit, then, that the early Christians had no “altar”, no special vestments for their presiders, the deacons(not “priest”) serves the bread and wine/water to the brethren, and no mention is made about the bread and wine being transubstantiated into the body and blood of Jesus? Also, Justin Martyr makes no mention of those who participate in the gathering receiving special grace since he said, “he gives thanks that we have been judged worthy of these gifts”, have been - not will be. So do you still insist that the “order of the Eucharistic celebration” has stayed the same until today? In truth, it sounds much more like the Protestant services I have attended.
1,255 posted on 01/28/2011 6:20:46 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: boatbums; one Lord one faith one baptism
Furthermore, there is a difference between Church doctrines, disciplines, customs, and devotions. Dogmas are the infallible teachings of the Church and include such things as purgatory and the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Church disciplines are the Church's human laws and rulings like vestments

Also, do note the mode of dress used in the Roman Empire in which Christianity did spread and compare that to the vestments. The laity changed their cloth-fashions.

Orthodox/Catholic/Oriental/Assyrian/Lutheran/Anglican priests simply retained their manner of liturgical dress. Priestly vestments are no more than stylized secular Roman garments which have accrued symbolic, liturgical significance over the centuries.

Here's a good link from the Lutheran CMS site
The unbroken connection with apostolic times is also revealed in the external forms of the liturgy. The altar is today the only place in our modern life where, with unbroken tradition, the vestments are still used which were worn by people in that olden day. Within the walls of the church one can still hear musical settings that preserve something of the very tones of that hymn of praise which our Lord and His disciples sang when they ate the paschal meal. The church is the one place in the modern world where one can still hear the best of medieval music and see the choicest treasures of medieval art as a living part of our culture. There is nothing in all the world today which embraces so much of an ancient culture or so many revered traditions as our chief liturgical service.

1,295 posted on 01/29/2011 4:04:08 AM PST by Cronos
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To: boatbums; one Lord one faith one baptism
Also, Altars are used in the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian, Roman Catholic, Lutheran and Anglican Churches.

You can read more here -- www.newliturgicalmovement.org
1,296 posted on 01/29/2011 4:07:09 AM PST by Cronos
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