Three Buffalo Catholic Churches to Merge (Catholic Shrinkage)

WKBW ^

[RnMomof7]

LOL.. Quizno’s died a sudden death here.

There is no question we have the best pizza in the country .. but I have to admit when I am out of town I look for a pizza hut.. at least it is really pizza :)

[metmom]

In some places Pizza Hut is the best you can do.

Sad, isn’t it?

I need to stop talking about food. It gets too hard.

[RnMomof7]

In that fiasco I related about when they changed serving communion from the altar rail to standing, easily HALF the people going up for communion went to the wrong place, the altar rail. That just went to show me how little your average Catholic went to mass and that was before I pretty much left the church.

Well get ready again..they have a NEW improved Missal and this pope is talking about a return to kneeling at an altar rail for communion..I guess it is back to "separating" the people from he altar again

[metmom]

I can just imagine what will happen when the twice a yearers go.

[Cronos]

What's interesting is how the members of the PCA (membership 350,000 and growing at 0.73% woohoo i.e. 5000 a year --> that's until they have their next split) and the church-of-one types keep saying that they have experience of these things.

The sad truth is that many of these names pretend to be ex- this or that and a few even pretend to be Christian. All that they have as their religion is hatred of orthodoxy.

[Cronos]

Nah, Claud -- remember there are fakers out in freeper land. A few months ago there was even a freeper claiming to be a Protestant Christian but in reality turned out to be an Adventist. Another one was a Unitarian Universalist.

The fact is that among the anti-Catholics there are three kinds:

1. The OPC/PCA --> group of 20,000 + 350,000 who shout more than their numbers and split every couple of decades or so (another split due soon).

2. Loony ufo-believers who have nothing else in life to live for

3. Non-Christians who pose as Protestants and like to stir up trouble between Catholics and Protestants. Evidently this is because these non-Christians don't like orthodoxy and Protestantism to co-operate on matters against the rise of Islam and secularism.


The problem is that group 1 and 2 are serving the purpose of group 3 and are too blind to see it.

[Cronos]

Interesting, and yet, 84,500 of Presbyterians leave Presbyterianism forever

		2009 membership	2010 membership	Lost	Gained
PCUSA	2,934,952	2,844,952	90,000
PCA	2,934,952	340,000		5,500
		Disappearing Presbyerians	84,500

The PCA is 300,000 in membership

2011 Church Membership: Southern Baptists Decline; Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons Increase

And PCA statistics provide a blurry snapshot says that Total membership in 2009 – 346,408, an increase of 5,556.

5,500 more....

in contrast the PCUSA has 2,000,000 members --> 7 times larger as you point out.

If the PCA adds in 5,500 members each year, they will reach 1 million members in 118 years

You can't go by the same growth percentage as growth tapers as size increases. But even taking that fallacious number, it will be 40 years. That's not counting the number of splits it will have before then.

The PCA will split soon -- don't worry, it's a child of the 70s and is due for a split. It will soon have priestesses, than gay-partnership "pastors" and the entire gamut. It's a house built on sand and is due to fall down.

[Cronos]

"Robust" US Catholic Growth in 2008

The Catholic Church, the nation's largest at more than 68 million members, reported a slight membership loss in 2009 (for the year 2007) but rebounded . . . with a robust growth of 1.49 percent in 2008.

Interesting -- and all those who left in the 60s and 70s are now coming home!!

Here is the website for those who wish to come back to Christ

Catholics come home

[Cronos]

"Robust" US Catholic Growth in 2008

The Catholic Church, the nation's largest at more than 68 million members, reported a slight membership loss in 2009 (for the year 2007) but rebounded . . . with a robust growth of 1.49 percent in 2008.

Interesting -- and all those who left in the 60s and 70s are now coming home!!

Here is the website for those who wish to come back to Christ

Catholics come home

Interestingly at the same time, the number of Presbyterians dropped by 84,500 --> i.e. 3% (even counting the Presbyterians that moved to the PCA) and the number of other Evangelical groups had low growths or even declined:

• the SBC down 0.24%
• The UMC down 0.98%
• Assemblies of God, up 1.27%

[RnMomof7]

Returning Catholics would not be called new members .. remember they were always Catholic because of their baptism

That membership is some converts but mostly baptism

[RnMomof7]

Interesting, and yet, 84,500 of Presbyterians leave Presbyterianism forever

Define presbyterian for me if you can

[Claud]

Well, our parish isn’t a territorial parish—it’s a Latin Mass parish that serves that community. But we have a Sat 5 PM, Sun 9:30 and 11:30.

The closest local parish near me has a 4:30 Saturday Mass, then Sunday Masses at 7:30, 9:30, 11:30, and 7 PM. All pretty much full.

And I have to strenuously disagree that we are going the way of Europe. There are parishes that are aging, to be sure—particularly in cities. But my parish and other more traditional ones are positively loaded with young families. 4-5 kids each is pretty typical.

[Claud]

The priest shortage is another issue entirely.

But not unrelated actually. Think about it—would there be a priest “shortage” if the number of parishioners were dropping? I think in ECUSA, whose numbers actually have been tanking, they have the opposite problem—too many clergy for very few parishioners.

Priest shortage sounds to me like there aren’t enough priests to meet demand.

[metmom]

What I understand is that there are not enough priests to go around.

That’s part of the issue in the area congregations where they are discussing merging the three churches. Matter of fact, I think it’s the MAIN issue. I’d have to check.

[Cronos]

Not really -- check netmilsmom's post

That’s silly. The number of Catholics who are active members of a parish are counted by the envelopes returned. If one donates, one is counted as an active member. We don’t even have children’s envelopes.

It was the same way when I was attending a Presbyterian Church. If I didn’t return an envelope, even if it was empty, I was not counted as an active member. However, if I did turn in that envelope, my husband and children were counted as active members.

Each diocese have a “Bishop’s fund” where the parish is taxed per number of members they have. Less members, less money they pay. It goes without saying that the parish would eliminate inactive members from their books so as not to pay the larger amount.

And that's the way it's counted. If you don't respond, you're not counted. Also, do note that this is also an impartial review at "Robust" US Catholic Growth in 2008 which doesn't go by Church rolls.


Here is the website for those who wish to come back to Christ

Catholics come home

[Cronos]

Presbyterians = any card-holding member of any Presbyterian group

	2009 membership	2010 membership	Lost	Gained
PCUSA	2,934,952	2,844,952	90,000
PCA	2,934,952	340,000		5,500
		Disappearing Presbyerians	84,500

The PCA is 300,000 in membership

2011 Church Membership: Southern Baptists Decline; Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons Increase

And PCA statistics provide a blurry snapshot says that Total membership in 2009 – 346,408, an increase of 5,556.

5,500 more....

in contrast the PCUSA has 2,000,000 members --> 7 times larger.

If the PCA adds in 5,500 members each year, they will reach 1 million members in 118 years

however you can't go by the same growth percentage as growth tapers as size increases. But even taking that fallacious number, it will be 40 years. That's not counting the number of splits it will have before then.

[Cronos]

Claud -- I live in Europe. 2000-2006 I lived in England and Belgium with sojourns in other parts of Western Europe, now I live in Poland since we moved from Delaware. Here's my experience and it's easily verified by checking the websites or dropping in on any of the churchs I mention.

In Brighton, Sussex, south of England -- quite a hedonistic town -- yet in both St. John the Baptist and Mary Magdalenes, for each of the 4 Sunday masses, there were at least 500 people in Mary Mags and 800 in St. John (it's larger, but I preferred Mary Mags for atmosphere) for each mass.

in London, Westminister Cathedral is always full for each of the 7 or so Sunday masses and I guess they can fit 1500 odd people in there -- it's huge and very beautiful in an Eastern Orthodox way.

In Scotland, the parishes I stopped at for weekend trips around Edinburgh and Aberdeen were packed as well.

Irish parishes in Dublin were not so packed, yet in the countryside yes.

in France (and I was surprised), even in Paris, there are quite a few devout attendees and even more so in the countryside in Alsace and in Brittany.

in Italy attendance varies from packed in the south to sparse in the north.

In Germany it's pretty much the same -- and surprisingly it's similar to the Lutherans, packed in Schwabia and sparse to empty in Schleswig-Holstein.

In Poland they're always packed, though my wife grumbles that people should be more devout but Poles like to grumble ;-P

In Norway and Sweden, the Churches are packed, mainly with Poles, but a few locals. The Lutheran churches there, sadly (and I honestly mean I am saddened by it) are empty.

Where else? Portugal it is dropping, Spain attendance is rebounding, in Belgium the churches in Flanders are packed to bursting but those in Wallonia are sparse. In Switzerland, it is sparse, but there seems to be a resurgence since they see the dangers of Islam.