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Bishop: None of your business (Hubbard rejects Catholic expert's criticism of Gov. Cuomo) [Catholic]
Times Union ^ | February 24, 2011 | Casey Seiler State Editor

Posted on 02/24/2011 6:44:21 AM PST by NYer


FILE - This Jan. 2, 2011 file photo shows New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, left, with his girlfriend, Sandra Lee, and Lt. Gov. Robert Duffy, center, in front of the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception, in Albany, N.Y., after attending Sunday services. The father, the son and the question of whether to grant communion to Catholics who openly flout canon law has once again reared up in New York where a Vatican consultant is calling to deny the host to Gov. Cuomo while he is living with his girlfriend. More than 25 years ago, Cuomo's father, Gov. Mario Cuomo, ran afoul of the church for his support of abortion rights.

ALBANY -- Albany Bishop Howard Hubbard says it is "unfair and imprudent" to conclude that Gov. Andrew Cuomo and his girlfriend, Sandra Lee, shouldn't receive Communion simply because they're living together.

Hubbard was responding to opinions expressed by Catholic canon law expert Edward Peters, who last month on his blog stated that the couple was engaging in what church law defines as "public concubinage" by sharing Lee's Westchester County home.

Peters wrote last month about Hubbard's warm welcome to the couple at Mass at Albany's Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception on Jan. 2, the day after Cuomo's inauguration. He claimed that Hubbard had committed a "dereliction of pastoral duty."

Without referring to Peters, Hubbard responded Wednesday by telling any critics to, in effect, mind their own business.

"There are norms of the church governing the sacraments which Catholics are expected to observe," Hubbard wrote in a brief statement. "However, it is unfair and imprudent to make a pastoral judgment about a particular situation without knowing all the facts.

"As a matter of pastoral practice we would not comment publicly on anything which should be addressed privately, regardless if the person is a public figure or a private citizen," Hubbard wrote in conclusion.

John Dwyer, a former Jesuit who taught theology at St. Bernard's School of Theology and Ministry, said Hubbard's statement was "the perfect response, really solid."

Dwyer, who lives outside of Tannersville in the Catskills, said modern religious thought has come to the conclusion that Communion should be denied only to those living in mortal sin -- a state that requires "a serious, grievous matter," sufficient reflection by the sinner, and the "full consent" of his will.

"Cuomo comes from a day and age when living with your girlfriend isn't a serious, grievous matter ... or something that's seen as a serious violation of God's will," Dwyer said.

Peters, who teaches at Detroit's Sacred Heart Major Seminary, serves as a consultant to the highest Vatican court, the Apostolic Signatura. His opinions were picked up by a conservative news service and reported around the state on Wednesday.

The back-and-forth over Cuomo's good standing as a Catholic is the latest in a long series of conflicts between church and state. Numerous Catholic politicians who support abortion rights -- including Vice President Joe Biden and the late U.S. Sen. Ted Kennedy -- have been criticized for taking Communion despite their advocacy for a practice viewed as anathema by the Vatican. Indeed, Peters' initial blog post on Cuomo's appearance at Hubbard's Mass noted the governor's pro-choice stance as an additional affront to church law.

After an appearance Wednesday morning on Long Island, Cuomo commented on the matter in a style similar to Hubbard's.

"My religion is a private matter," he told reporters, "and it's not something I discuss in the political arena."


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; Worship
KEYWORDS: canonlaw; cuomo

1 posted on 02/24/2011 6:44:28 AM PST by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...
John Dwyer, a former Jesuit who taught theology at St. Bernard's School of Theology and Ministry, said Hubbard's statement was "the perfect response, really solid."

St. Bernard's Institute is in a former seminary. It is overseen by both Bishops Hubbard (Albany) and Clark (Rochester), two of the most progressive US bishops. It is a hot bed of ultra liberal philosophy and theology.

Hubbard should meet with Cuomo and educate him in his faith. That is the proper course of action.

2 posted on 02/24/2011 6:48:16 AM PST by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: Liz; The Mayor; skully; eastsider

Ping!


3 posted on 02/24/2011 6:49:31 AM PST by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: NYer
Hypocrisy !

Beware False Shepherds.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

4 posted on 02/24/2011 6:50:30 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: NYer

Helps to have a bishop on the payroll, I guess.


5 posted on 02/24/2011 6:50:58 AM PST by Huck (one per-center)
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To: NYer
Hubbard should meet with Cuomo and educate him in his faith.

Shouldn't both of them meet with an actual Christian and be educated in the Faith handed down from the Apostles?

6 posted on 02/24/2011 6:52:17 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: All
Albany Bishop Howard Hubbard says it is "unfair and imprudent" to conclude that Gov. Andrew Cuomo and his girlfriend, Sandra Lee, shouldn't receive Communion simply because they're living together.

Ping for later. Thread says [Catholic] not [Catholic Caucus].

7 posted on 02/24/2011 7:02:58 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("Posting news feeds, making eyes bleed, he's hated on seven continents")
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To: NYer

The faux Catholic Dwyer is expanding the scandal even further by his idiotic and absolutely false statements, including this one:

“Cuomo comes from a day and age when living with your girlfriend isn’t a serious, grievous matter ... or something that’s seen as a serious violation of God’s will,” Dwyer said.


8 posted on 02/24/2011 7:29:14 AM PST by Notwithstanding
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To: NYer

“The floor of hell is paved with the skulls of unfaithful bishops”

*St. John Chrysostom


9 posted on 02/24/2011 7:32:16 AM PST by OpusatFR
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To: NYer
"However, it is unfair and imprudent to make a pastoral judgment about a particular situation without knowing all the facts.

"Cuomo comes from a day and age when living with your girlfriend isn't a serious, grievous matter ... or something that's seen as a serious violation of God's will," Dwyer said.


I am sure that Canon lawyer Peters was being neither unfair nor imprudent, since he comes from a day when pastoral judgment about a particular situation without knowing all the facts of a public official is not something that's seen as a serious violation of God's Will.

Once you let the relativism genie out of the bottle, your eminence, you can't put it back.
10 posted on 02/24/2011 7:36:27 AM PST by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics.)
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To: NYer

The Church has long had a double standard when it comes to liberal politicians. Look at Teddy Kennedy ..he should have been excommunicated for his open support of abortion and his numerous divorces should have cut him off from the Church altogether. Yet Teddy was given a full Catholic funeral with as I recall a Bishop presiding.


11 posted on 02/24/2011 7:38:49 AM PST by The Great RJ (The Bill of Rights: Another bill members of Congress haven't read.)
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To: NYer

When a very public figure is very publicly “living in sin”, then there is scandal in that fact alone.

Society does accept “living in sin” and the Church will not try to impose its will in that regard.

The Church and the public rightly presume that non-married couples who live together as if they were married are unchaste. It is a rebuttable presumption, but for public figures who flaunt the relationship, a public announcement and evidence that they are living chastely is absolutely necessary to rebut the presumption of unchastity.

And the bishop adds to the scandal by acting as if the couple has repented and stopped “living in sin”, when there has been nothing to indicate that sinful behavior has ended.

Bishop Hubbard is one of those whose skull seems poised to pave the road to hell.


12 posted on 02/24/2011 7:40:47 AM PST by Notwithstanding
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To: NYer

In his concubine’s vernacular, Cuomo is semi-married, semi-Catholic, and semi-repentant. He’s also half-baked.

And something tells me we will soon hear that the bishop’s goose is fully cooked.


13 posted on 02/24/2011 7:48:20 AM PST by Notwithstanding
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To: NYer
I agree with you, Hubbard should meet with him and instruct on the ways of salvation. It seems to me Mr. Cuomo is at a crossroads with the choice to be made between his will and the Will of God. As of right now he seems to be choosing against God. When a person is in this state he runs a great risk. When he starts to love sin, if he loves to lie, commit adultery, cheat, or kill, his ability to love has turned toward himself and away from God. He will not tolerate anyone who accomplishes God's Will because it interferes with his own. God becomes a threat to his way of life. An enemy. A competitor.

Much work needs to be done Bishop Hubbard!

14 posted on 02/24/2011 7:51:51 AM PST by Gerish (Feed your faith and your doubts will starve to death.)
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To: NYer

As a Catholic, I can understand how situations like this make people turn to the Protestant faiths. What is it about higher positions that turns some very good priests into sniveling, political, hacks.

As our priest said last Sunday, “It is not morality that must adjust itself to contemporary culture, but contemporary culture that must adjust itself to morality.”


15 posted on 02/24/2011 7:57:30 AM PST by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: Gerish

It’s the bishop who needs to be instructed, perhaps by Peters, before he can instruct Cuomo. I wasn’t aware the Church followed popular culture. Silly me, I thought the Church had its principles, and followed them in spite of changes in what is socially acceptable. How did a clown like this get to be bishop?


16 posted on 02/24/2011 8:02:12 AM PST by EDINVA
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To: NYer

Hubbard needs to be told to take retirement now.


17 posted on 02/24/2011 8:25:12 AM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: NYer

Huh, your boy is busy! Too bad he doesn’t have the final say.....he will have to answer to the Big Guy for this little fiasco.


18 posted on 02/24/2011 8:26:41 AM PST by tioga
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To: NYer

I am counting the days till we shed ourselves of Clark. Can’t happen soon enough.


19 posted on 02/24/2011 8:27:33 AM PST by tioga
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To: NYer

“John Dwyer, a former Jesuit who taught theology at St. Bernard’s School of Theology and Ministry, said Hubbard’s statement was “the perfect response, really solid.”

Dwyer, who lives outside of Tannersville in the Catskills, said modern religious thought has come to the conclusion that Communion should be denied only to those living in mortal sin — a state that requires “a serious, grievous matter,” sufficient reflection by the sinner, and the “full consent” of his will.

“Cuomo comes from a day and age when living with your girlfriend isn’t a serious, grievous matter ... or something that’s seen as a serious violation of God’s will,” Dwyer said.”

For him alone I think is reason enough to start a “CINO Jackass of The Day” award.


20 posted on 02/24/2011 8:27:33 AM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: lastchance

I have noticed from personal experience that those who attend St. Bernard’s come back speaking Rochester-ese....and I no longer look to them for spiritual guidance. I have been told by one of them that the Pope is just a doddering old fool and not to be listened to. I stood with my mouth hanging open in shock. I stopped listening to them years ago.


21 posted on 02/24/2011 8:34:18 AM PST by tioga
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To: EDINVA
How did a clown like this get to be bishop?

I wish I knew the answer to that. He needs many prayers as I am afraid he will have much to answer for.

22 posted on 02/24/2011 10:18:45 AM PST by Gerish (Feed your faith and your doubts will starve to death.)
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To: Alex Murphy
"Thread says [Catholic]"

Get off this thread!

23 posted on 02/24/2011 1:42:24 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: EDINVA; Gerish
How did a clown like this get to be bishop?

Archbishop Jean Jadot, Pope Paul VI's apostolic delegate to the United States from 1973-1980, has no regrets about the spate of bad bishops he inflicted on the Catholics of this country.

snip

Jadot is still proud of some of his most notorious picks, such as Bishop Walter Sullivan of Richmond, Va., Archbishop Rembert Weakiand of Milwaukee, and Roger Cardinal Mahony of Los Angeles - to name but a few, many of whom are known more for their advocacy of homosexual rights, their protection of pederast priests, and their conunitment to modernism than to their commitment to the Church's doctrines. Other men who became bishops during Jadot's tenure in the United States include Rochester Bishop Matthew Clark; Albany's Howard Hubbard; former Santa Fe Archbishop Roberto Sanchez, who resigned in a sex scandal; former San Jose Bishop Pierre DuMaine; former Honolulu Bishop Joseph Ferrario; San Antonio Archbishop Patrick Flores; former Newark Archbishop Peter Gerety; Joliet, Ill., Bishop Joseph Imesch; Louisille Archbishop Thomas C. Kelly, O.P., a former staffer at the apostolic nuncio under Jadot; Bernard Cardinal Law of Boston (whom Jadot selected as bishop for Springfield-Cape Girardeau, Mo.), Cincinnati Archbishop Daniel Pilarczyk; Saginaw, Mich., Bishop Kenneth Untener - to name a few more - all of whom, supposedly, mirrored his own progressive image as a "man of the people."

Still Proud Of Bishops He Gave U.S.

The article was written in 2002. Archbishop Jadot passed away in January 2009, at the age of 99. Both Bishops Hubbard (Albany) and clark (Rochester) will reach mandatory retirement age in another 3 years. They have been friends since seminary.

24 posted on 02/24/2011 1:55:55 PM PST by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: The Great RJ
Teddy was given a full Catholic funeral with as I recall a Bishop presiding.

I am no fan of Ted Kennedy but I was not present at his deathbed and have no knowledge of his final moments which may very likely have included a full confession. If you were there and can attest otherwise, please let me know. Otherwise, neither one of us is in a position to judge him, nor those who officiated at his funeral.

25 posted on 02/24/2011 2:00:44 PM PST by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: NYer

“They have been friends since seminary.”

Are we supposed to read between the lines? NOTHING would surprise any more. This generation of priests and bishops have done incalculable harm that will take another few generations to overcome.


26 posted on 02/24/2011 2:36:21 PM PST by EDINVA
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To: NYer

Hubbard’s a Paul VI leftover. Enjoy your new springtime Bishop; your days are numbered.


27 posted on 02/24/2011 7:08:59 PM PST by TradicalRC (Carthago Delenda Est..)
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To: NYer

I have no problem with Ted’s funeral mass, BUT I do object to televising the mass. Over the top and appalling, especially considering his sinful life.


28 posted on 02/24/2011 7:47:18 PM PST by tioga
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To: NYer; All

“Albany Bishop Howard Hubbard says it is “unfair and imprudent” to conclude that Gov. Andrew Cuomo and his girlfriend, Sandra Lee, shouldn’t receive Communion simply because they’re living together.”

Even IF they are sleeping in separate rooms, what about Cuomo’s pro-abortion, and pro-homosexual “marraige” positions. No way can we excuse that away.


29 posted on 02/24/2011 11:44:25 PM PST by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: NYer

Dear Casey Seiler State Editor, the right word for this was not anathema. The right word is heretic, and that is a mortal sin.


30 posted on 02/25/2011 1:10:55 AM PST by namvolunteer (We draw the Congressional districts this time)
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To: All

I, too, was apalled. I’ve added a page to my blog at http://maronites.wordpress.com that links to Dr Peter’s erudite replies.

I live in the RC diocese of Albany and it’s worse than you can imagine.

Peace and joy!


31 posted on 03/03/2011 9:45:07 AM PST by fides qua creditur
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