Death Blow to Mormonism – The Book of Abraham is a Fake?

PomoTheo ^ | 2006 | Pomo

[ejonesie22]

One problem with your argument.

Christians have never claimed the Nicean Creed (or an other Creed for that matter) to be Scripture, otherwise it would inserted in to the Bible. They are simply statements that define what is believed.

So there really is no “big problem” logically or otherwise...

At least among Christians...

[Elsie]

Hey PD.

Does any of your links have the instructions on what to do during the MORMON Temple rituals?

I’ll bet LURKERS would REALLY like to read them themselves; instead of just HEARSAY from ex-mormons.

[Elsie]

                            

[BlueMoose]

Thanks for the links. They were helpful in finding information on the Book of Abraham.

[greyfoxx39]

The major problem Christians; have with Mormons is

.....well, here's just ONE example!

After almost 180 years of mormons and mormon leaders demeaning Christians and Christianity...

Apostle Bruce R. McConkie (1915 - 1985):


"...the Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable, ...But with the Bible it was not and is not so....it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization [Christianity], founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was."

- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13

“Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls.”

- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, see pp. 45-46

“... all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ.... in large part the worship of apostate Christendom is performed in ignorance, as much so as was the worship of the Athenians who bowed the Unknown Gods.”

- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 269, 374-375

 

NOW, mormons demand to be called "Christian" and spend millions on a PR campaign towards this goal.

At the same time, see below the kind of false "Christianity" that is coming from the mormon church.

The mormon church is out to completely falsify our God and His Son, Jesus Christ..."premortal", "restoration"...just in time for Easter. Click on the image for the REAL truth.

[greyfoxx39]

We could probably all post some salacious fact about a former Pope. We could point a finger at the strange ways of the Amish or Mennonites. We might be able to dig up some disgruntled ex-born again evangelicals if desired. SO WHAT IS SO SPECIAL ABOUT MORMONS? Why single them out for threads like these?

The Mormon Christ

The following are actual mormon beliefs.

Mormon Teachings on Jesus Christ

The Son Was Made by a Divine Man and Woman

According to Mormons, Jesus Christ is their elder brother, since he was the firstborn in the spirit world. That is, God the Father and one of his heavenly wives begot Christ's spirit at some point in the eternity before earthly creation. This was made possible because the Father, who had previously lived, died, and was resurrected in some other world, had finally attained divinity for himself. As part of the blessings of godhood, he was given an eternal wife or wives with whom to procreate spirit children.

The Son-and All Created Things-Pre-Existed from All Eternity

The Mormon church correctly teaches that the Son exists from all eternity. It makes two mistakes, however. First, it holds that the Son's pre-existence was only as vague, unformed matter until his heavenly parents begot his spirit. Second, Mormons believe that his pre-existence-as they define it-is the pattern for all created beings. Thus, for Mormons, every person has existed from eternity; each spirit came into being in heaven by the union of God the Father and one of his heavenly wives. That spirit is eventually placed into the human body created by earthly parents.

Jesus Christ can be called the "firstborn" only because his was the first "spirit body" formed by his heavenly parents. There then followed the "spirit bodies" of all other rational beings.

Yet Scripture clearly states the Son created all things and is himself uncreated: "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist" (Col. 1:16-17).

We do well to remember the distinction presented earlier between Christ's divine and human natures. As the Second Person of the Trinity, the Son of the Father, Christ exists eternally. There never was a time when he was not. Because God is perfect and therefore changeless (change implying a movement either toward or away from some ideal or perfection), the Son did not undergo a "reformation" of component elements, bringing him into self-awareness or personhood. Jesus possessed both a divine and a human nature from the moment of his earthly conception. He did not grow into divinity either before or while living a mortal life among men.

Mormons admit Christ became God before he took on a mortal estate. Sometimes, though, their terminology is reminiscent of Greek or Roman mythology. One Mormon writer phrased his view this way:

"Mary, heavy with child, traveled all that distance on mule-back, guarded and protected as one about to give birth to a half-Deity. No other man in the history of this world of ours has ever had such an ancestry-God the Father on the one hand and Mary the Virgin on the other. . . . Jesus lived in a lowly home, the only man born to this earth half-Divine and half-mortal" (The Life and Teachings of Jesus and His Apostles, 10).

From Catholic Answers, which is in line with many other Christian's view of the Real Christ and the mormon Christ.

NOW, the mormons have produced a video in which they claim "this seven-part documentary series stands to affirm His divinity by reconciling the historical Christ (read the mormon Christ) with the Christ of religious tradition" (read the Christ of Christian belief)

Behold the Lamb of God is the first documentary that covers all phases of the Savior's life's spanning His premortal existence to the "restoration of the gospel" all told from a mormon perspective."

THAT, is just one reason that mormons, in your words ARE SO SPECIAL. There are many other reasons. If you follow these threads, you will likely see them presented.

[Elsie]

Jesus lived in a lowly home, the only man born to this earth half-Divine and half-mortal" (The Life and Teachings of Jesus and His Apostles, 10).

Except for the FACT that Jesus was FULLY mortal and is FULLY divine!

[greyfoxx39]

On Alchemy: An Appreciation of its Religious Ideals-Kerry Shirts

This is an astonishing conglomeration of religious and philosophical symbolism which taps into the root and runs into the branches of religious belief the world over. It is always delightful to study someone’s other faith on its own grounds giving it serious attention, respect, and the benefit of the doubt, instead of trying to show why it is inferior to our own. True, other’s faiths are inferior to our Mormonism… in some respects, but they are equally superior to our Mormonism in other respects. This, I cannot help but think, would have made Brigham Young smile. He said we want the truth no matter where it is nor who has it, implying that truth has been scattered all over the world for us to search for, find, and enjoy. Herein is my appreciation of Alchemy as a fantastic symbolic system of divine ennobling truths for us to benefit from. These are obviously not a replacement of our own sacred truths as we find in our churches or temples in the Endowment. There are truths of Gods children from other areas of the world, and from other cultures, equally as important to God, and hence equally as important and true for God’s children.

After all, we Mormons do, indeed, teach that God is the God of the whole world, not just Salt Lake City.   [snicker]

[Godzilla]

This is unFREEKING believeable GF - this guy is nutz.

[greyfoxx39]

This is unFREEKING believeable GF - this guy is nutz.

LOL...tell that to Blue Moose..he keeps posting links to Kerry's YouTube videos.

I may have to name BM "Player of the Week"!

[ejonesie22]

When Shirts is you best defense, you a pretty much toast.

[ejonesie22]

Taht is “When Shirts is your best defense, you are pretty much toast”

Bloody glasses.

[Elsie]

True, other’s faiths are inferior to our Mormonism… in some respects, but they are equally superior to our Mormonism in other respects.

But; I am NOT at liberty to divulge which ones are which.

You'll have to find out for yourselves using PD's Links...

--KSWannaBee(the truth IS out there...)

[RC51]

You act as if the Catholic divinity is the same as the Baptist Christ or the Jehovah’s Witness’ Christ.

Why do you single out the Mormons?

I go to one church, there is a different church across the street. I don’t go to that one because their beliefs don’t ring true to me; but I don’t begrudge them for it, we are both Christians and I’m OK with that.

Threads like this one, posted solely for the sake of persecuting a person’s religious beliefs, reflect poorly on FREE REPUBLIC. You can take the gloves off when Mormons begin committing suicide, blowing themselves up, crashing hijacked planes into buildings or preaching the overthrow of the US Government.

[RC51]

“.... why the traditional Christian Church does not consider LDS to be Christian”

What is this traditional Christian Church you speak of? Does it include Catholic & Protestant denominations? Which Protestant ones?

You must admit that the Mormons are not the only Christians who preach that Jesus & God are not the same entity. There are also many others that preach the soul exists eternally (both before & after life). Some Christians believe solely in grace, other solely in works & repentance and some a combination like I think Mormons might follow.

What is the point of coming on FREE REPUBLIC and persecuting a specific Christian denomination? I’m sure atheist lurkers from Daily KOS love threads like these.

[Religion Moderator]

This thread is posted in the Religion Forum.

If you do not wish to see RF posts, do NOT use the "everything" option on the browse. Instead, browse by "News/Activism." When you log back in, the browse will reset to "everything" - so be sure to set it back to "News/Activism."

[rickomatic]

What is this traditional Christian Church you speak of? Does it include Catholic & Protestant denominations? Which Protestant ones? You must admit that the Mormons are not the only Christians who preach that Jesus & God are not the same entity. There are also many others that preach the soul exists eternally (both before & after life). Some Christians believe solely in grace, other solely in works & repentance and some a combination like I think Mormons might follow. What is the point of coming on FREE REPUBLIC and persecuting a specific Christian denomination? I’m sure atheist lurkers from Daily KOS love threads like these.

The historic Catholic Church and the mainline Protestant denominations such as Baptists, Methodist, Presbetyrian, Lutheran, Assembly of God, etc. While all those denominations might have slight differences in doctrine, they all share the same beliefs about the nature of God, and being saved by grace through the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross and his rising from the dead. Mormons simply do not believe this. That's not propaganda, that's plain fact that even the Mormons will admit. It wasn't until recent history that the Mormons even tried to align themselves with mainline Christianity. For some unseen reason, they were surprised by the push back.

I dismiss your premise that Mormons are even Christian. The simple fact that they put the name of Jesus in their title means nothing. It is their doctrines which define them. I can wear a Chevrolet emblem around my neck, write Malibu accross my forehead, and sleep in my garage, but none of those things makes me an automobile. What those of us here on FR say and do in these threads is not persecuting at all. If you were familiar with their doctrines you would know that. What we are doing is contending for the faith, something which we are commanded to do. I could care less what the Daily KOSites think about that. I answer to the Lord Jesus Christ, not them.

One question I have for you, RC, is how come you're so concerned about this? Are you LDS?

[Hegewisch Dupa]

well said

[RC51]

Nope - not LDS. However it’s my belief that Catholic doctrine is just as weird as Mormon doctrine, to me.... However I believe both are my Christian brothers and I wish peace and good-will upon them both.

Specifically, I find Baptizing babies as abhorrent as baptizing or “sealing” dead people.

My beef is with any self-proclaimed Christian quick to cast the first stone, at their fellow Christians none-the-less. Jesus set a better example than that - have you prayed about your hatred towards Mormons? And our Father told you to go forth upon thy Internets and persecute them?

[rickomatic]

Jesus set a better example than that - have you prayed about your hatred towards Mormons? And our Father told you to go forth upon thy Internets and persecute them?

If I hated Mormons, as you say, then I'd be perfectly happy in watching them all drive off the wrecked bridge of Mormonism into the river of hell. The doctrines of Mormonism leads to destruction. The Lord told us to preach the Gospel and contend for the faith. The Bible is filled with warnings about false prophets and teachings, and our charge is to know the truth and to point out error. To be luke warm about those things, and accept anyone and everyone's doctrines that lead to destruction is the very thing we are told NOT to do.

I have pointed out the 2 very important distinctions between Mormonism and true Christianity to you. If you can't see the severity of those differences and the eternal consequences of Mormonism's error, then I don't know what else to say. Better yet, why don't you tell me why those differences don't matter in your mind. Perhaps that would illustrate your position more clearly.