Posted on 04/20/2011 12:07:28 PM PDT by AnalogReigns
Well you will have a lot to work out.. Infused grace vs Imparted grace to name just one fundamental difference .no small difference ... Good luck
There is acant evidence that it is the "thoughtful" ones that end up swimming the Tiber. There are too few to judge.
Don't you think that is rather presumptuous on your part?
I do not think God will ask what the "propers" are
The context was liturgy, specifically Catholic liturgy. I am guessing that how you worship God, whatever your theology, is important to you.
I am glad I am in the same church. Well said.
No , Catholics believe that they are damned by their sin..not that they are saved by Christ..
I do not think God will ask what the "propers" are
The context was liturgy, specifically Catholic liturgy. I am guessing that how you worship God, whatever your theology, is important to you.
Again God is not going to ask you what the proper is.. He is going to ask why He should admit you into heaven.. What would you as a catholic say?
‘Only 23 percent said they left because of the church’s teaching on abortion and homosexuality; only 23 percent because of the church’s teaching on divorce; only 21 percent because of the rule that priests cannot marry; only 16 percent because of the church’s teaching on birth control; only 16 percent because of the way the church treats women; only 11 percent because they were unhappy with the teachings on poverty, war and the death penalty.’
Abortion, contraception, and homosexual ACTIVITY
being sinful arew all NON_NEGOTIABLE. If you leave the Church for this reason, you embrace your own sinful ideals.
As for married prists, women priests, AIN’T gunna happen. Thirty years of JP II and now with Benedict, we have significantly more conservative cardinals than at any point since the reformation and willonly get more so as the recent scandals and problems bring greater focus onto the sins and poor choices of the churchover the last century and particularly the last fifty years.
The Church can and will survive the modern age quite well. It has done so for the last 2,000 years and I expect that through all it’s problems it will go on long after this age is gone.
The two are not mutually exclusive.
I will grant you that it is much nicer to believe that your actions have no consequences. It is no surprise that that message sells so much better than the truth.
And out of a 1.1 billion Catholics, you've personally surveyed how many to come up with that conclusion?
He is going to ask why He should admit you into heaven.
Where is that in the Bible?
You are right on money. Some of these people might have joined Protestant denomination because they don’t like the hierarchical nature of the Catholic Church. Some left because of theological position. Others because of worship styles. Each of those might join different denomination.
OK I guess I'll take your word for it. You seem to be the expert on what Catholics believe.
He is going to ask why He should admit you into heaven..
I don't expect my salvation to depend on the outcome of a Divine interview. It should be pretty clear to God what my fate is by then, regardless of any canned answer I might have at the ready.
This is why I usually have the good sense to avoid these open religious threads. It's damn near impossible to have any kind of constructive discussion.
Anglo-catholic, Lutheran are very similar to the catholic mass.
I am an Anglican, it is the best of both in my lil ol opinion.
“The serious churches are gowing, while the lukewarm churches are shrinking. “
I am not a RC and won’t defend them but I take issue with that statement. Mormonism is the fastest growing church in the U.S. any many of these other “growing” churches are independent/charismatic that have there own issues such as the prosperity gospel heresy. I don’t think numbers explains what is going on in the U.S.
Jim from C-Town:
The data is hard to decipher but what is the 23% who left over abortion vs. the 23% over marriage and divorce vs. the 16% over women are totally mutually exclusive or at least partially mutually exclusive.
Clearly 81% because represents they people across the various 23% over abortion, 16% because of women’s issues, etc, and is the sin of pride in deciding I want to decide what is worship and thus it is something that we the people make up, not what is received down thru the centuries.
Now, even if those numbers are are not mutually exclusive, i.e a person can be in more cohort/groups, you are still talking about 1 in 4 leaving over abortion and leaving a spouse and getting into another marriage or 3rd marriage, etc, etc because of the Catholic Church teaching that if you are in an irregular marriage, you are to refrain from Communion.
Tinkering with the wording of the creed at Mass is not going to help. No one except the Vatican and the bishops cares whether Jesus is “one in being” with the Father or “consubstantial” with the Father. That the hierarchy thinks this is important shows how out of it they are.
While the hierarchy worries about literal translations of the Latin text, people are longing for liturgies that touch the heart and emotions. More creativity with the liturgy is needed, and that means more flexibility must be allowed. If you build it, they will come; if you do not, they will find it elsewhere. The changes that will go into effect this Advent will make matters worse, not better.
Finally, the Pew data shows that two-thirds of Catholics who become Protestants do so before they reach the age of 24. The church must make a preferential option for teenagers and young adults or it will continue to bleed. Programs and liturgies that cater to their needs must take precedence over the complaints of fuddy-duddies and rubrical purists.
[Jesuit Fr. Thomas J. Reese, former editor in chief of America
IOW, "the product" was more appealing, attractive, enjoyable.
Implicit in this concept, is the idea that we ought to somehow "tailor" or modify the product which we provide to meet customer demand.
I'd argue that this is at the very heart of our spiritual problems, today. When I say "our" I don't just mean Catholic. I mean the entire western world.
Excellent observation. Neil Postman, in his book Amusing Ourselves to Death blames television for this approach to adapting the "product" to the market, and one of those "products" is religion. Adapting the religious message so that it is tailored, as you said, or otherwise made emotionally satisfying, is to change it to something different than the original. As he puts it, "I believe I am not mistaken in saying that Christianity is a demanding and serious religion. When it is delivered as easy and amusing, it is another kind of religion altogether."
False.
The greatest book ever written about television. Period.
Agreed. Must read for everyone.
I also recommend his Technopoly.
I like the changes even more now!
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