Skip to comments.Muti sides with pope against Church 'sing-songs'
Posted on 05/27/2011 12:31:09 PM PDT by GonzoII
(ANSA) - Vatican City - Italian conductor Riccardo Muti is backing Pope Benedict XVI's drive to discourage guitar ''sing-songs'' from Catholic masses.
The traditionalist German pontiff has called for an end to the use of pop-inspired religious music that many Catholic churches have used in different parts of the world to attract the faithful.
''It is possible to modernize holy music,'' he once said at a concert at the Sistine Chapel. ''But this cannot happen outside the great traditional path of the past, of Gregorian chants and sacred polyphonic choral music.
''(The Church supports) new expressive means (in music, as in art and architecture) without denying the past, the history of the human spirit, which is also the story of its dialogue with God''.
Critics have said the use of modern music helps the Catholic faith remain relevant and vibrant for young people and that it is better to have guitars and tambourines during mass than empty churches. But those objections have been rejected by world-famous conductor Muti.
''The pope is right when he says it is necessary to bring our great musical heritage back into churches,'' said Muti, a former director of Milan's La Scala who is now in charge of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra.
''The history of great music was determined by what the Church did.
''When I go to church and I hear four strums of a guitar or choruses of senseless, insipid words, I think it's an insult.
''I can't work out how come once upon a time there were Mozart and Bach and now we have little sing-songs. This is a lack of respect for people's intelligence''. Although many disagree with Benedict's views on music, there is no doubt that the pope speaks about the subject with authority.
(Excerpt) Read more at ansa.it ...
"This Mass is ended all go in peace..."
Thank God for Pope Benedict!
Bless his heart.
This thread calls for some STRYPER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“Calling on YOU”
Stryper \ Calling On You
Inside of me there is a lonely place
Sometimes I just don’t know it’s there
But when I’m all alone
That’s when I have to face...
The part of me that needs someone
To be by my side that’s when I call on...
You, You make my life complete
You give me all I need
You help me through and through
I’m calling on you
I can’t explain just what You do to me
My love grows stronger everyday
You give me love, You give me company
And when I have to face the rain
You bring sunshine into my life
I used to be a Catholic, and some of that liturgical music put me to sleep it was SO repetitious. At least with what we used to refer to as “Guitar Mass”, nobody would be sleeping, especially when the bass player showed up!
I’m not a huge fan of that type of hair metal glam-rock, but I always laugh at so called rock fans who say that Stryper wasn’t rock. I mean, they threw bibles out to the crowd like WASP threw raw meat. That always sounded pretty rocknroll to me, espescially considering it made a lot of so-called rock folks upset. They were just upset that it made them uncomfortable instead of the “squares” for a change.
I agree, but it has to be done well. To do chant badly and make it monotonous and depressing is worse than the hootenanny.
I do not miss the insipid, new age music that was introduced in the seventies. Garbage.
Hymns that are Biblical are the ones I love most.
Just as the rest of the Mass is so is the music. It is one’s approach and attitude that makes the liturgy worshipful and uplifting.
I have got to send this to my Church music ministers...
I've never heard of "Stryker"?
IMHO, "contemporary" music is fine, if it is good music...the problem truly is with insipid "feel-good" lyrics, set inappropriately to the music (church musicians will know what I mean - there's some really bad music out there, either texts, or settings, or both)!
The music doesn't have to be so "sophisticated" or pretentious, but it does have to have some worthwhile quality about it, besides being "accessible" to the whole assembly...
"Pop" music is different than "contemporary" music, and /church music rant, LOL!! Remember Memorial Day, and meantime, happy 6th Sunday of Easter! ;)
I guess I'm behind the times...but it's really a dilemma (sic) for smaller parishes when it comes to "competing" with the "mega-Churches" for membership in this day and age...if you don't have a rock band, a parish teen rock band, perhaps a country-western Mass, etc., then somewhere else is always going to be more "fun" and "vibrant", and possibly more individually "meaningful" to attend, especially if you're encouraged to participate in some version of "American Church Idol"!!
But what is the meaning of "meaningful"??
“like WASP threw raw meat”
Not sure that Blackie and the boys have stopped chucking it yet.
Last I saw of him, he was on “that metal show”, in mid world tour. A rock survivor for sure.
**The traditionalist German pontiff has called for an end to the use of pop-inspired religious music that many Catholic churches have used in different parts of the world to attract the faithful.**
How many bishops and music directors will display obedience to the Pope?
You are always a Catholic. You Baptism lasts forever. Come back any time. We welcome you.
You are always a Catholic. You Baptism lasts forever. Come back any time. We welcome you.
Darn few. Especially since our own archbishop continues to allow the folks at OCP to continue to send out their rancid tripe to at least seventy five percent of the parishes in the country.
I second that.
“Critics have said the use of modern music helps the Catholic faith remain relevant and vibrant for young people and that it is better to have guitars and tambourines during mass than empty churches.”
This really comes back to the traditional/modernist problem. The modernists in the Church, who feel that the Church must change in order to “keep up with the times,” disagree with the traditionalists, who feel that eternal truths are literally that, and need not change, by virtue of being eternal. The modernists think that by doing that which they perceive as updating, they can attract a larger parish population.
What they miss, whether by design or choice or what-have-you is that, if you teach people about the Mass, and what it means, understanding begets relevance, vibrancy, and reverence, and love. That goes for the music, too.
We’ve had forty-two years of Kumba-ya. Bring on the good stuff, provide good catechesis, and there won’t be empty churches.
If people understand that we are going up to Calvary at Mass, maybe the guitars will fade away into oblivion.
Agreed. My pet peeve is that most of the modern music at Mass is very hard for the average person to sing. It prevents us from really singing along loudly and participating. The old songs are designed for group participation in a medium range.
The new songs are all over the place. Perhaps they are designed that way so the cantor can “solo” all the time and receive attention. No one near the altar should be calling attention to himself. I am sad that the choir is now in the front where they can perform and distract us all. They should be in the back in the choir loft so we can focus on the Sacrifice on the altar.
Notice what happens when we sing an old song at Mass. Everyone joins in and sings much louder. Most don’t even need a songbook. The classics are best!
I especially hate that they don’t let us sing ALL the Gloria anymore. We are relegated to the chorus as they mangle the words into some tortured new tune.
The Crazy “Holy Ghost Hokey Pokey”
>> Critics have said the use of modern music helps the Catholic faith remain relevant and vibrant for young people and that it is better to have guitars and tambourines during mass than empty churches. <<
If by “young people,” you mean aging hippies.
>> “This Mass is ended all go in peace...” <<
“... We must diminish, and Christ increase.” Saddest thing is the reason I probably haven’t heard that song in thirty years is because such a sentiment is contrary to the zeitgeist of church modernism. The music ministry’s probably much more comfortable with, “We must allow people to experience Christ through our showboating.”
... and yet you left anyway. Bad music drives out good doctrine, and steals focus from true worship.
Sorry, that probably came across as a little flippant. Hymns are not meant to be entertaining; they are pauses for the congregation to participate in worship. (God help me, when I was a kid, I enjoyed, “The mass is ending.”) What I have found is that a few moments of very low-grade entertainment not only makes deep worship more difficult in the song, but keeps snapping me out of worship when there isn’t a song; whereas traditional music, such as organ or chant, helps sustain me in worship.
Which is not to say my mind doesn’t wander plenty, or I never get bored. Worship isn’t always easy, and I don’t mean to make it sound as if I’m so holy that it’s simple enjoyment, because I’m not.
Worst yet (and this is what I was eluding to), I find that when the congregation isn’t expected to attempt interior worship, the homilies also turn infantile or materialistic. (Anti-consumerism is still materialism; socialism is the epitome of materialism.)
Seriously, I watch the congregation often when my mind does wander. And I almost never see people singing the modernist “guitar-mass” songs; what people always sing are the “Holy, Holy, Holy,” etc.
I left because I believe we can pray to God directly without any intermediary. Saints are decided by God, not a panel of Cardinals or the Pope. Mary was a chosen servant of God, NOT a spiritual equal to be idolized. The choice of music was the least of my reasons why I left.
I had never even heard of polyphony until I began teaching at a secondary school that has everyone, even the teachers, sing in choir. There I came to learn of Palestrina, William Byrd, Andrea Gabrieli, and other masters of sacred music. I’d had no idea such beauty even existed!
My son introduced me to the following Ave Maria written by Franz Biebl, and it still moves me nearly to tears each time I hear it.
It is a sung version of the Angelus, a mid-day prayer.
>> I left because I believe we can pray to God directly without any intermediary. <<
That’s a pretty amazing statement, since there is no appeal to the Saints, or the Blessed Virgin Mary in the entire Roman liturgy, apart from appeals to the entire church:
“And I ask the Blessed Virgin, all the angels and Saints, and you, my Brothers and sisters to pray for me...”
“We pray with [litany of the Saints]...”
This is a great departure from older, Eastern rites.
>> Saints are decided by God, not a panel of Cardinals or the Pope. <<
And how would we know who is decided by God to be a Saint? A tiny, select few of the saints are chosen by God, for whatever His purpose may be, to be made known to us on Earth. And so God permits miracles to be performed through appeals to such saints, to confirm that they are before the throne of grace. There is no panel of Cardinals involved. The role of the Pope is to affirm a commission that such miracles are genuine, and divine in origin, as opposed to diabolical.
>> Mary was a chosen servant of God, NOT a spiritual equal to be idolized. <<
You never heard the contrary uttered in a Catholic church! Some cult in Quebec uttered such nonsense and was excommunicated before their candles burned down. Carl Jung (who first proposed such nonsense) was not Catholic.
>> The choice of music was the least of my reasons why I left. <<
The shocking lack of catechesis you described in comorbid with banal lyrics. As I noted, once the liturgical music does infantile, so too do the homilies and prayers of the faithful.
The Church of God as a mother is opened to everyone and I think everyone has a place in the Church. I agree that in the Church must be both traditional choirs and guitar groups. All of us are praising God by using different methods. Even in a Psalm (which I don’t remember) is mentioned to praise the Lord with musical instruments! So why the Church is making difference between intstruments?