CALVINISM IN AMERICA [Happy "Presbyterian Rebellion" Day, everybody!]

Reformed Theology.org ^ | Loraine Boettner

[Rashputin]

"Shove off, pea-brain."

That can't be right. I don't have a boat and I sure don't have gardening on the brain. Oh, I have a few things planted and growing but the neighbors chickens keep getting in the garden and that doesn't seem to be helping. Now, these are some gaunt chickens, not at all like the you'd expect a chicken to be. I keep fixing the hole in the fence but somehow another one appears or my repairs get undone. One time the neighbor complained and said one of my dogs had killed one of his chickens. Jack the Basset never came back in with feathers hanging out of his mouth or anything but I know dogs will kill a chicken so I asked what the guy wanted for his chicken and settled up.

When I heard he had demanded payment from a couple of other dog owners around here I figured it out. Nice guy that he is, this neighbor has figured out that the poor examples of chicken-hood he is raising are pretty much worthless unless he can get them to wonder into a neighbors' garden and then say they were slain by a vicious Basset or errant Terrier and pretend they're worth real money. No matter what he says, everyone knows damn well he's trying to get people to pay him top dollar for worthless chickens.

[Cronos]

Wow -- so the reformatters created the USA?

Despite the separation of 2 centuries or more between the events?

That's utterly incorrect

For the first hand, both the English and the Revolutionaries were pretty much of the same religion

Secondly, the puritans were hardly lovers of liberty -- when they could establish their taliban states they did

thirdly, evidently you may not have heard that Catholics played a disproportionate role in the American Revolution contrary to their numbers (1.6% of the colonies' population)

1. There were no Baptists among the Founding Fathers --> there were
   1. Church of England/Episcopalian: 28
   2. Presbyterian: 8
   3. Congregationalists: 8
   4. Lutherans: 2
   5. Dutch Reformed: 2
   6. Methodists: 2
   7. Catholics: 3 (C. Caroll, D. Caroll & Fitzsimons)
   8. Deists: 7 (including Thomas Jefferson

2. Evidently you never heard that Maryland was founded for providing religious toleration of England's persecuted Roman Catholics?

3. Evidently you never knew that John Caroll had initially been a priest before devoting himself to the Revolution?

4. Evidently you never heard of Fr. Pierre Gibault who pledged the support of the region of S-W Indiana to the USA (to Col. George Rogers Clark)?

5. Evidently you never heard of the accomplishments of John Barry, a native Irishman who captained a number of ships during the war. Barry was the first to capture a British war vessel on the high seas; he also was wounded in a sea batter yet captured two British ships and fought the last battle on the seas of the Revolutionary war. He was George Washington's choice for commander of the US navy -- he was issued Commission Number 1 by Washintong and was not only the first American commissioned naval officer but also it's first flag officer

6. Evidently you've never heard of the Marquis de Lafayette, a Catholic or the Polish captain Tadeusz Kosciuszko and both were key in the Revolutionary War?
7. Evidently you never heard of Casimir Pułaski, a Pole who led Washington's cavalry and died in the battle for Savannah

8. Evidently you never heard of the Catholic Philadelphia merchant Stephen Moylan who became Quatermaster General of the Continental Army?

9. John Caroll says this about Catholic participation in the Revolutionary war (remember the country was only 1.6% Catholic):"Their blood flowed as freely, in proportion to their numbers, to cement the fabric of independence as that of their fellow citizens. They concurred with perhaps greater unanimity than any other body of men in recommending and promoting from whose influence America anticipates all the blessings of justice, peace, plenty, good orders, and civil and religious liberty"

The religious freedom fought for was also religious freedom for Catholics from Protestant England, hence the Catholic volunteers and support from Catholic Irishmen, Frenchmen and Poles.

It is wrong to claim that this was just the Calvinists who liberated our country.

[Cronos]

John Calvin wrote in Of civil government

"An evil man seeketh only rebellion, therefore an evil messenger shall be sent against him."

For it is just as if it had been said, that it is not owing to human perverseness that supreme power on earth is lodged in kings and other governors, but by Divine Providence

Those who are desirous to introduce anarchy object that, though anciently kings and judges presided over a rude people, yet that, in the present day that servile mode of governing does not at all accord with the perfection which Christ brought with his gospel. Herein they betray not only their ignorance, but their devilish pride, arrogating to themselves a perfection of which not even a hundredth part is seen in them.

But be they what they may, the refutation is easy. For when David says, "Be wise now therefore O you kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth," "kiss the son, lest he be angry" (Psalm 2: 10, 12,) he does not order them to lay aside their authority and return to private life, but to make the power with which they are invested subject to Christ, that he may rule over all.

In like manner, when Isaiah predicts of the Church, "Kings shall be thy nursing-fathers, and their queens and nursing- mothers," (Isaiah 49: 23,) he does not bid them abdicate their authority; he rather gives them the honourable appellation of patrons of the pious worshipers of God; for the prophecy refers to the advent of Christ. I intentionally omit very many passages which occur throughout Scripture, and especially in the Psalms, in which the due authority of all rulers is asserted.

The most celebrated passage of all is that in which Paul admonishing Timothy, that prayers are to be offered up in the public assembly for kings,

The concept of liberty from Kings that swept the world from the time of the American and French Revolutions right up until the expelling of the Kings/Emperors/Tsars/Kaisers/Caliphs in 1911-1918 owed more to the Greek concepts of individual freedoms rather than to Calvin who said For if it has pleased him to appoint kings over kingdoms and senates or burgomasters over free states, whatever be the form which he has appointed in the places in which we live, our duty is to obey and submit. and furthermore goes on to say (in Calvin's Institutes Obedience to bad kings required in Scripture.

[Cronos]

Then in the next breath they insist that no one has any special authority since everyone can interpret Scriptures on their own according to their own understanding.

Quite right -- Calvin basically said "don't follow what has been taught for 1500 years by Christ and His apostles, follow me. And if you don't, then remember Mikey Servetus"

[Cronos]

Of course Calvinism is incompatible with missionary work -- see how the Union Baptists like Abner Smith and Ariel Dancer followed the "two seeds" doctrine that it was foolish to present the Word to the non-elect and that the elect would be won without missionaries

[Lera]

...if not for the Reformers, I doubt there would have ever been a United States of America.


That's for sure !!!!!!


CatholicTV calls for "Benevolent Dictatorship"?!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2701531/posts

[Diamond]

Of course Calvinism is incompatible with missionary work -- see how the Union Baptists like Abner Smith and Ariel Dancer followed the "two seeds" doctrine...

Would you mind explaining the examples of missionary zeal I gave in post #28 then?

Cordially,

[MarkBsnr]

You got that right. In one breath they quote someone like Calvin who in reality was just another power hungry jerk with a pen and a desire to avoid taking up his cross to follow Christ. Then in the next breath they insist that no one has any special authority since everyone can interpret Scriptures on their own according to their own understanding. Who wouldn't be aware of their own failure when their argument relies on a stool with three legs, but with two attached to one side of the surface and the third leg attached to the opposite side of the surface?

Our esteemed opponents are out of Wonderland inasmuch as they believe that anything can mean what they want it to mean.

Like TUPLIP, that Terribly Useful Lie Infecting Protestants, it's all self-gratification and nothing else. It's a scam created by the master of scams who always appeals to pride first and hardens the heart of the fallen when they succumb to other temptations once pride hides the Truth. What is more appealing to human pride than being as god knowing both good and evil without the need to take up the cross of obedience before we can know His ways?

When your god is the image that you see in the mirror, and you keep him on the hall stand and rub his head for luck when you walk by, what need have you of anything else?

[Cronos]

1. This is incompatible with Calvin's own Limited Atonement and double predestination philosophy. If one follows Calvinist philosophy on this, then none can "do" (do = work) anything to bring anything to Christ's fold as it's already pre-programmed.

2. Calvin did not evangelize France. Remigius did that in 496 AD

3. Prove your statement that Calvin sent out more missionaries than the BAptist, Pentecostals, Methodists of today.

4. The missionary movement was founded by Christ. There is no such thing as "modern missionary movement" indicating a discontinuation with the original message to spread the Word of Christ -- the commission given by Christ Himself.

[MarkBsnr]

Quite right -- Calvin basically said "don't follow what has been taught for 1500 years by Christ and His apostles, follow me. And if you don't, then remember Mikey Servetus"

Sure. Let Mikey try it. He'll eat anything...

[MarkBsnr]

Quite right -- Calvin basically said "don't follow what has been taught for 1500 years by Christ and His apostles, follow me. And if you don't, then remember Mikey Servetus"

Sure. Let Mikey try it. He'll eat anything...

[Cronos]

By it’s very nature, a cult like Calvins that prides itself on being the Brahmin race of predestined folks is inimical to proselytism.

[lupie]

Thanks for the ping. It is sad though to see how it did not take long before the nasty posts started. Never any facts, but full of attitude. Sigh...

[Matchett-PI]

You wrote: “Interesting that the Puritans themselves were not Presbyterians but Congregationalists.”

The 55 Framers (from North to South):

John Langdon, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Nicholas Gilman, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Elbridge Gerry, Episcoplian (Calvinist)
Rufus King, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Caleb Strong, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Nathaniel Gorham, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Roger Sherman, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
William Samuel Johnson, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Oliver Ellsworth, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Alexander Hamilton, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
John Lansing, Dutch Reformed (Calvinist)
Robert Yates, Dutch Reformed (Calvinist)
William Patterson, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
William Livingston, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Jonathan Dayton, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
David Brearly, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
William Churchill Houston, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Benjamin Franklin, Christian in his youth, Deist in later years, then back to his Puritan background in his old age (his June 28, 1787 prayer at the Constitutional Convention was from no “Deist”)
Robert Morris, Episcopalian, (Calvinist)
James Wilson, probably a Deist
Gouverneur Morris, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Thomas Mifflin, Lutheran (Calvinist-lite)
George Clymer, Quaker turned Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Thomas FitzSimmons, Roman Catholic
Jared Ingersoll, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
John Dickinson, Quaker turned Episcopalian (Calvinist)
George Read, Episcopalian, (Calvinist)
Richard Bassett, Methodist
Gunning Bedford, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Jacob Broom, Lutheran
Luther Martin, Episcopalian, (Calvinist)
Daniel Carroll, Roman Catholic
John Francis Mercer, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
James McHenry, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Daniel of St Thomas Jennifer, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
George Washington, Episcopalian (Calvinist; no, he was not a deist)
James Madison, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
George Mason, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Edmund Jennings Randolph, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
James Blair, Jr., Episcopalian (Calvinist)
James McClung, ?
George Wythe, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
William Richardson Davie, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Hugh Williamson, Presbyterian, possibly later became a Deist
William Blount, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Alexander Martin, Presbyterian/Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Richard Dobbs Spaight, Jr., Episcopalian (Calvinist)
John Rutledge, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, III, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Abraham Baldwin, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
William Leigh Pierce, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
William Houstoun, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
William Few, Methodist

NOTE: Historic Protestant, Episcopalian doctrine is Reformed and Calvinistic. The Episcopalian church that adheres to its historic doctrine is still Reformed in the United States.

“Calvinism prevailed in England since it was the theology behind the Thirty-Nine Articles (1563) of the Church of England” (Paul Enns, *Moody Handbook of Theology*. Chicago: Moody Press, 1989), p. 476.

The Episcopalians held as their subordinate standards the 39 Articles of Religion. This confession is Calvinistic in emphasis.

bttt

[Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus]

Were you aware that George Washington may have become a Catholic?

Then why did he request, and was granted, believer's baptism by John Gano, a Baptist pastor?

[Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus]

...it burns you up, doesn't it? what you champion, was in past centuries the enemy of what is held dear by many in this nation. Freedom. (not a "Catholic" idea!)

Uh, I'm not Catholic. I'm a Baptist - and I find the Catholics and the Protestants (read Calvinists) equally worthy of criticism on this regard.

[Cronos]

Actually, Washington didn't -- it's called the "Alleged baptism of George Washington by Gano"

Rupert Hughes, Washington's biographer researched this and says that Gano was with Clinton's army in Valley Forge or the Potomac and there is no documentation of Gano ever being at Valley Forge, that there is nothing in Gano's own correspondence or his biography to suggest that the event took place, and that none of the 42 reputed witnesses ever documented the event

Washington attended services at numerous churches -- he was a great man and he was born Anglican, may have become Catholic, but that's an issue with him and God.

[MarkBsnr]

Didn’t take long for the infants to show up and tinkle in the pool. But, seems like that’s typical. Especially when faced with facts.

Certainly. Comic book Christianity is such a great substitute for the real Faith. Warms the heart, right?