[BlueDragon]

You say I came in on the attack. Actually, I was fighting the revisionist slanders and smears that arise whenever Calvin is mentioned here. It seems to make some foam at the mouth with hatred, for he dared challenge papal authority.

...if not for the Reformers, I doubt there would have ever been a United States of America. I thank them, instead of hating them (for being less than perfect).

[Alex Murphy]

...if not for the Reformers, I doubt there would have ever been a United States of America.

Nailed it in one.

[Rashputin]

Oh, so you fight revisionism based on your "Sola Yourselfa" reading of both Scripture and history just like I said.

Christ set this nation up to play a role in His plan. The Reformation had nothing to do with it other than to generate the very divisions that now keep Christians from fighting for the nation to return to Christ rather than fighting one another. Reformation or not Christ would have made of this nation what he wanted just as Christ is now rewarding this nation for turning away from Him with exactly what the people of this nation have begged for, the fetish of selfishness. Prideful selfishness that refuses to recognize the earnestness and faithfulness of anyone they don't agree with.

[Cronos]

Wow -- so the reformatters created the USA?

Despite the separation of 2 centuries or more between the events?

That's utterly incorrect

For the first hand, both the English and the Revolutionaries were pretty much of the same religion

Secondly, the puritans were hardly lovers of liberty -- when they could establish their taliban states they did

thirdly, evidently you may not have heard that Catholics played a disproportionate role in the American Revolution contrary to their numbers (1.6% of the colonies' population)

1. There were no Baptists among the Founding Fathers --> there were
   1. Church of England/Episcopalian: 28
   2. Presbyterian: 8
   3. Congregationalists: 8
   4. Lutherans: 2
   5. Dutch Reformed: 2
   6. Methodists: 2
   7. Catholics: 3 (C. Caroll, D. Caroll & Fitzsimons)
   8. Deists: 7 (including Thomas Jefferson

2. Evidently you never heard that Maryland was founded for providing religious toleration of England's persecuted Roman Catholics?

3. Evidently you never knew that John Caroll had initially been a priest before devoting himself to the Revolution?

4. Evidently you never heard of Fr. Pierre Gibault who pledged the support of the region of S-W Indiana to the USA (to Col. George Rogers Clark)?

5. Evidently you never heard of the accomplishments of John Barry, a native Irishman who captained a number of ships during the war. Barry was the first to capture a British war vessel on the high seas; he also was wounded in a sea batter yet captured two British ships and fought the last battle on the seas of the Revolutionary war. He was George Washington's choice for commander of the US navy -- he was issued Commission Number 1 by Washintong and was not only the first American commissioned naval officer but also it's first flag officer

6. Evidently you've never heard of the Marquis de Lafayette, a Catholic or the Polish captain Tadeusz Kosciuszko and both were key in the Revolutionary War?
7. Evidently you never heard of Casimir Pułaski, a Pole who led Washington's cavalry and died in the battle for Savannah

8. Evidently you never heard of the Catholic Philadelphia merchant Stephen Moylan who became Quatermaster General of the Continental Army?

9. John Caroll says this about Catholic participation in the Revolutionary war (remember the country was only 1.6% Catholic):"Their blood flowed as freely, in proportion to their numbers, to cement the fabric of independence as that of their fellow citizens. They concurred with perhaps greater unanimity than any other body of men in recommending and promoting from whose influence America anticipates all the blessings of justice, peace, plenty, good orders, and civil and religious liberty"

The religious freedom fought for was also religious freedom for Catholics from Protestant England, hence the Catholic volunteers and support from Catholic Irishmen, Frenchmen and Poles.

It is wrong to claim that this was just the Calvinists who liberated our country.

[Lera]

...if not for the Reformers, I doubt there would have ever been a United States of America.


That's for sure !!!!!!


CatholicTV calls for "Benevolent Dictatorship"?!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2701531/posts