Sola Scriptura: Death by a Thousand (or Ten) Qualifications?

Doug Beaumont.org ^ | 7/3/11 | Doug Beaumont

[marshmallow]

No, Doug is not Catholic nor Orthodox. From his "About" page:

I am Doug Beaumont - a college professor, ordained minister, armchair philosopher, back seat theologian, and all around righteous dude. I was not raised in a Christian home and almost no member of my family was religious. I had a Jehovah’s Witness babysitter for a while, and another was a Christian, but I was too young to know or care about the difference. I was sent to vacation Bible school, and I did raise my hand and “say the prayer” with my best friend at one point – but it didn’t really take. During high school, my closest friends were agnostic except one Mormon girl whose beliefs I found strange even though she was pretty cool. Some of my classmates turned out to be Christians although I did not know it then (they had a shock at our reunion!)............

After graduating college and taking the requisite Europe trip, I married my sweet wife and we moved to North Carolina to go to seminary. I am now pursuing a Ph.D. in Philosophy of Religion, teaching at Southern Evangelical Seminary, and speaking for various venues.

[LearnsFromMistakes]

Is it scripture alone?

Or must we entrust our understanding of the scriptures to those steeped in traditions and learning?

Or, simply, can His sheep hear His voice? For some odd reason, we prefer to outsource our understanding of God and His ways to the ‘professionals’.

[sr4402]

Yes, it looks like Doug attempted a Sophistry attack on the Bible. To him it is impossible to be authoritative because of all the things he insists must be done first.

But the thing that must be done first is to become a Christian - to be Born Again. For without Faith it is impossible to understand the Authority of Christ let alone the Scriptures.

Like Erasmus, he attempts to use the wisdom of the world on the Scriptures.

[SoConPubbie]

I don’t need a layer of faulty human administration and human sinfulness between God my Savior and myself.

Jesus died on Calvary to do away with that type of religion (where God would transmit his messages to a priestly layer who would then talk to the people) and to usher in a dispensation where the Holy Spirit teaches us all things we need to know.

That does not mean there isn’t a proper role for a preacher/pastor, just that my relationship with God does not depend in any way on someone that stands between God and myself.

[pgyanke]

To him it is impossible to be authoritative because of all the things he insists must be done first.

Things that must be done first such as... sharing the Gospel without a New Testament, writing Gospels and Epistles beginning 20-30 years after Christ's Ascension, identifying which writings are Scripture and bringing these all together into a Biblical Canon over the next 300 years...?

The problem with Sola Scriptura (well, one of them anyway...) is that it presupposes that there can be no Church without the written Word. That is logically untenable since Christ gave us His Church and it was this Church which wrote down its Testament. Before there was the Bible, there was the Church. The Sola Scriptura crowd would have us believe that there was no Church for generations after the Great Commission was given until the Apostles took a break from what they were assigned in Scripture (Baptizing and converting all nations) to do what they were not assigned in Scripture (writing books).

[bronx2]

The fruits of Sola Scriptura is the tens of thousands of independent Christian churches which dot our landscape each proclaiming their own interpretation of the bible. The sin of pride envelopes the hearts and minds of these Sola Scriptura types who worship not God but their own God given abilities.

The reformation crowd continues to abuse the Word of God to promote their own self importance.

[D-fendr]

Or, simply, can His sheep hear His voice? For some odd reason, we prefer to outsource our understanding of God and His ways to the ‘professionals’.

The point is unless you become your own professional, you require some along the way. Unless, if I'm understanding you, you're saying scripture is not necessary either.

[Jvette]

What an interesting read.

I predict that there will be numerous protests from the protestors that the Holy Spirit guides them in their reading and understanding of Scripture.

I refer them to the whole argument of personal infallibility.

Not that that will do any good.

[LearnsFromMistakes]

The point is unless you become your own professional, you require some along the way.

One of the things that Jesus established is that you can't always trust the professionals (but the professionals & their supporters disagree, of course).

Unless, if I'm understanding you, you're saying scripture is not necessary either.

I certainly never meant to even imply that. I try to read thru the bible every year, and am always looking for a different version/comments (different 'scholars' bring out different things, always educational). Full disclosure - this year, I am about 2 weeks behind in my reading.

[Iscool]

Even allowing that the Bible is the final and ultimate authority for Christian faith and practice, it still must be understood. That is, the Bible’s authoritative teaching resides in the message it conveys – not the physical book itself. And discovering the message of the Bible requires navigating through many layers of human interaction first. These layers of human interaction are like lenses through which the Bible’s message is seen. It seems to me, then, that to whatever degree these interpretive layers influence how one understands the Bible’s message, to that degree they have an authoritative function (at least practically speaking). This seems to introduce the very kind of human authority that the popular sense of sola scriptura claims to avoid.

Been millions of words written to prove that the words of God are not the final authority for Christians...And all it comes down to is do we believe God or don't we???

Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

If we have the words that God intended for us to hear in the scriptures we have today, everything is this long article is meaningless drivel...And I'm sure it is...

Someone who makes the claim that the scripture is only the message God tried to leave for his Children does not in my view, have a relationship with God...If all one gets is a message, it's likely the wrong message anyway...

Keep up the good work, men...

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

[LearnsFromMistakes]

I predict that there will be numerous protests from the protestors that the Holy Spirit guides them in their reading and understanding of Scripture.

You mean like John 14:26? “But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.”

I refer them to the whole argument of personal infallibility.

I don't know anyone that claims their interpretation is infallible. But everyone I know is personally responsible for their interpretation.

[papertyger]

... millions of words written to prove that the words of God are not the final authority for Christians...And all it comes down to is do we believe God or don't we???

Such a fatuous non-sequitur.

I strongly suspect this kind of infantile passive aggression is where the Obamanites got their original idea for their "you only oppose him because you're racist," prattle.

[papertyger]

Sure you do: you just don’t know anyone with the intellectual integrity to admit it.

[D-fendr]

thanks for your reply.

One of the things that Jesus established is that you can't always trust the professionals

The point is the only alternative, in the areas outlined in the article, is to become your own professional. And did Paul suggest that each is to determine his/her own doctrine?

I try to read thru the bible every year, and am always looking for a different version/comments (different 'scholars' bring out different things, always educational).

Thanks for this. I do think it illustrates that no one really practices sola scriptura. You choose your own professionals/scholars.

I don't believe jesus intended for us to be our own professionals, or intended that we choose which ones to follow based on our own lights, another form of choosing our own doctrine. I believe it is clear that this is the role of the Church as it was in Acts and the Epistles.

I'm also certain we disagree on "church". :)

[sr4402]

The problem with Sola Scriptura (well, one of them anyway...)

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

No, God and His Word (The Scriptures) are one and the same.

Argh, just another Sophistry attack on the Bible.

[Rashputin]

Sola Scriptura isn't in the Scriptures so if you only accept Scripture you can't accept the doctrine of Sola Scriptura. The fact that all Scripture is profitable for instruction, etc., doesn't trump the fact that the Church is called the bulwark of the faith, not the written word. I realize a lot of people argue about there being no need for a priesthood of any sort, but I also realize that Christ constantly called us sheep and told the Apostles to feed his sheep. The Holy Spirit is our comforter who makes it possible to understand what we're taught, as I understand it, and the Apostles were to be our shepherds and ordain others as shepherds to help the sheep stay in the fold and away from harm. I think those are two different roles because even while the Apostles are still alive there were people misinterpreting what they had been taught and who needed a shepherd to set them straight. I just don't see Christ dwelling on what sheep we are and not establishing a system of making sure the sheep had genuine shepherds.

I think a lot of people who realize they need Salvation and that Christ is their Savior sincerely set out to follow Christ but end up back on their old path due to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura. When they're taught that they can rely on their own understanding, their own restatement His Word, and their own interactions with whatever spirit they hear, they're falling for the same lie Eve fell for.

It's useless to argue about, though, since the majority of people realize it's far easier to rationalize any behavior they want to indulge in than it is to change their behavior. As their own final authority on the meaning of Scriptures, there's no need for them to bother changing. Churches ordain queers, marry queers, and proclaim universal salvation, all based on their interpretation of Scriptures. One year a church preaches that no Christian should have tattoos or gamble. When members are getting tats while in Vegas anyway, the same church preaches about the freedom we have in Christ that allows such things. I'm sure everyone can think of their own examples as well.

JMHO

Regards

[Elendur]

That does not mean there isn’t a proper role for a preacher/pastor, just that my relationship with God does not depend in any way on someone that stands between God and myself.
///
Well-said Sir.
i respect that, and for most of my life, i agreed with you.

...perhaps you are correct. (and, even the Catholic church, admits Protestants and Baptists, are certainly Christians, and may attain heaven.)

For sake of discussion, i will concede you have the ONE true church, not the Catholics.

...however, this is specifically about “Sola Scriptura”.
which does have many problems.
1) there is a verse (Peter?) that says some scripture is too difficult to understand. and for that, you should go to your teacher.
2) other verses, warn against listening to unschooled and false teachers. HOW CAN YOU KNOW? it seems illogical, that Jesus wouldn’t tell us to go to teachers, without a means of telling the good ones.
in medicine, we have “board certified” doctors. imperfect, but better than pot-luck...
3) there is a verse, that talks about the importance of scripture. and it refers SPECIFICALLY to a piece of scripture, that is NOT in the current Bible...
4) Ephesians and others show Jesus loved his flock, his church. he promised to guide them. Yet after he returned to Heaven, he left teachers and apostles, though laying on hands and Holy Spirit... but NO Bible !!!
...not for what, 200 years was it completed?

Jesus left, without first giving us the SOLE instruction manual?

others know these points better than me. again, perhaps SoConPubbie is in the ONE true church, spoken of REPEATEDLY in the Bible.
but, “Sola Scriptura”, is falsified by the very book it claims is “Sola”.

(and, please? someone tell me, why Jesus would allow the ONE church on earth, to have holy scripture in the Bible, that was REMOVED, only after 1500 years, when Martin Luther said “hey, those books shouldn’t have been in there for 1500 years...”.)

[LearnsFromMistakes]

You choose your own professionals/scholars.

Yes, just as we choose which traditions to honor - what day to worship on, which days to hold sacred (Paul talked about some of this, see below).

did Paul suggest that each is to determine his/her own doctrine?

I have seen that thought before, never really understood it. He did almost say it in Romans 5:14 (One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.). But I don't think he meant 'doctrine'. There is only 1 way to heaven (that whole 'died for my sins' thing, and 'there is no other name', 'ye must be born again' - that kinda stuff). But outside of that, we are all individuals. We have the same 'high-level' mission, but that is worked out in different ways. Some are missionaries, some are translators, some lead in worship, some in study & counseling, some are givers.

Or am I completely missing your point?

[LearnsFromMistakes]

even while the Apostles are still alive there were people misinterpreting what they had been taught and who needed a shepherd to set them straight.

Not only that, but the apostles had disagreements amongst themselves. For example, Paul was able to set Peter straight on some issues, but other times God had to correct even the apostles.

Don't get me wrong, they were awesome men. But God showed us that we all need corrections at some point. The 'body of Christ' is an amazing thing.

[D-fendr]

Yes, just as we choose which traditions to honor - what day to worship on, which days to hold sacred (Paul talked about some of this, see below).

I think my point is different than yours concerning Paul's letter here. He certainly explains his doctrine, but he doesn't say, in effect "therefore whatever doctrine you explain is right also." Paul is speaking for the Church, not as one individual for himself only.

Another example is the Council of Jerusalem. Here they argue out doctrine, but they do not say: Ok, Peter you can have your own church and that doctrine, and James will have this one and that doctrine.

I.e., there is one doctrine and the Church has authority over what that doctrine and belief is.

Thanks very much for your reply.