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To: terycarl
I agree with your points in a sense...but the "Catholic Church" is not the same as the organization based in Rome. (You want to balance the whole authority of Rome on one bible verse to St. Peter?) Is there overlap? Of course, as I fully acknowledge there are many Christians loyal to the Roman section of the Church.

However, the Church, as Rome itself acknowledges, is bigger than Roman Catholicism...which is why you, with Rome, would call me a Christian, or an Eastern Orthodox believer a Christian, or Baptists, or a Pentecostals or even a "non-denominational" believers, Christian. None are a part of the organization based in Rome, yet, when Rome acknowledges there are ANY Christians apart from her organization(and not all in her organization are true Christians either....just as in any other Christian body)--she acknowledges there is a Church universal, beyond Rome's reach--the members of whom are known by Christ our Head Himself.

I'm very familiar with the Patristic era (before AD 500) when the New Testament was first recognized and put together. All of the New Testament writings are 1st Century and of Apostolic origin...not invented or created by the Church, therefore, if one takes a historical/scholarly approach to what the Apostles actually believed and taught, you cannot look at it through the lens of many centuries of traditions, papal decisions and doctrinal appendages, any more than if you wanted to know what the Founding Fathers intended for our government, would you look at U. S. Supreme Court decisions, much less acts of Congress or Obama...instead of the Constitution itself.

I think there is an excellent parallel there--as Protestant Christianity is the original "strict constructionist" approach to Christianity--"back to the sources!" was the rallying cry of the Renaissance in which it was born... and the Bible, God's Word revealed to us, just as it was for those saints in the first 400 or 500 years, is the supreme authority, over and above the Church, who must be obedient to the Lord and his Word. Does this deny the authority of the Church universal? NO. It does however put her authority UNDER God's authority--thereby actually establishing her authority.

(Isn't it interesting that BEFORE Rome & Constantinople et al. became super powerful, politically and in every other way--the Church did actually stay together as one? When the Church leaders reached beyond the authority of holy Scripture, with innovations and traditions-made-dogma, then, and only then, did our fellowship break, beginning with the Great Schism, NOT Luther)

Yes, the Church Catholic in total (and like I said, that includes ALL Christians)....does have the authority to "interpret, explain and impose" (religiously, not with force of arms through the state...) the holy scripture, and I'm very proud of OUR Christian heritage--of those who gave their lives protecting, compiling, translating, editing, copying, preserving and saving the bible, especially in those early centuries.

However, if you took a time machine and transported say, Irenaus of Lyons, or Clement of Alexandria, Origen, or even the great Augustine of Hippo into the present day, they would not recognize the Church based in Rome today as that same Church Catholic they knew... MANY beliefs have been appended since those times...and NO Roman prelate in their day had anywhere near the power or supposed authority medieval Roman Catholicism granted the Bishop of Rome--which he continues to claim today.

The faith and practices of Rome appear very different to me and others who have read and studied the New Testament, from the faith and practices taught there...which is why, it is a fact that until recent generations, Rome discouraged bible reading...and even, a few hundred years ago, severely persecuted those who dared translate the bible (Look up William Tyndale, for example) into the common tongue.

Even now, the least biblically literate Christians I've ever met were Roman Catholic...as it makes sense, if the Church and the Curia have equal authority to the bible....then why bother to read and think, just ask your priest, right?

174 posted on 08/01/2011 7:59:11 PM PDT by AnalogReigns
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To: AnalogReigns

I don’t have time right now to refute your statements but I will keep your message for further reference. One thing you said, however , that until recent generations the church discouraged bible reading.....first of all, until the invention of the printing press...virtually noone read the bible. Bibles were prohibitively expensive because they were hand copied by CATHOLIC monks, hence only royalty and a few libraries could afford them. You also mentioned bible interpretation...you can read and enjoy the bible all you want, but make no mistake about it, the church remains the authority concerning its interpretation. Can you imagine a couple of billion different images of what the bible really meant???not a good idea at all. Listen to what the church teaches and then adapt your interpretation to their teachings. I think that’s what Jesus had in mind when He gave the church the keys to the kingdom of heaven


175 posted on 08/01/2011 8:23:34 PM PDT by terycarl
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