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To: Colofornian

Lots of believers understand God, the father, and Jesus to be separate entities/souls. It’s not just Mormons. Jehovah’s Witnesses have them as separate beings as well. Certainly Jews see them as two different souls. In fact, of all the world’s religions, only modern Christians have the trinity doctrine. It’s not clear that the early church had that belief, either. They knew him to be the SON of God.

FWIW, worshipping Jesus is never specifically commanded in the Bible (though there are instances of people doing so). You will not find a verse that says to worship Jesus (follow, obey, etc., sure, but not worship). In Revelation, a holy angel (which may or may not be Jesus, depending on your interpretation of Revelation) corrects John when he sees himself falling down to worship the angel and says that the testimony of Jesus is to worship GOD.

“Rev.19:10 — And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”


7 posted on 10/05/2011 8:57:14 AM PDT by stranger and pilgrim
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To: stranger and pilgrim

it it true that 3 lefts make a right but 2 wrongs..not so much

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God.

And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us

Jesus Was and Is the Word and Was and Is God.


25 posted on 10/05/2011 10:07:36 AM PDT by Bidimus1
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To: stranger and pilgrim
FWIW, worshipping Jesus is never specifically commanded in the Bible (though there are instances of people doing so). You will not find a verse that says to worship Jesus (follow, obey, etc., sure, but not worship).

"FWIW" in this specific case means "not much"...and actually, I'm being quite generous.

What? You never got around to reading the book of Hebrews? Here, allow me to quote it for you:

6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.” (Heb. 1:6)

(I guess if you were an angel and had disobeyed this, that would have placed you in the demon camp, now wouldn't have it? Is that the camp you subscribe to? In fact, let's cut to the heart here & not talk abstractly...it sounds as if you yourself don't worship Jesus...is that true?)

Certainly when God brought his firstborn into the world, the wisemen complied in worshiping Jesus (see Matthew 2:8,11) [You're not going to start yelling diatribes @ wisemen scenes & nativities each Christmas, are you, for worshiping Jesus?]

Also, we learn from the Gospels about worshiping Jesus by looking @ Jesus' reaction. Did He rebuke those who worshiped Him?

38 Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him. (John 9:38) (the following verses to that one also show the "blindness" that Jesus wished to heal people of wasn't simply physical -- but spiritual -- to correctly see the Lord as He is, and to respond in worship like this blind man did.

What about Mary Magdalene and the other woman who worshiped the resurrected Jesus? 8 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9 Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. (Matt. 28:8-9)

Did Jesus tell either of them to rise to their feet -- to "don't do it" -- like an angel did elsewhere in the NT?

Or what about the disciples?
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” (Matthew 28:16-20)

Note there, too, the reaction of Jesus. No rebuke was given. No warning issued.

And frankly, in the Jewish culture, even to say to a Being, "My Lord and my God!" was in and of itself a great act of honor, worship, and glorification!

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” (John 20:28-29)

28 posted on 10/05/2011 10:14:45 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: stranger and pilgrim
Two issues with this fro the start. "Believers" can think what they want but cannot make up from whole cloth that which God sets out rather clearly in his word. So these "believers" are wrong and are spreading false ideas about the savior of a much larger number of actual Christians.

As far as the Trinity being a “Modern” Christian belief, what is your definition of “modern”. The idea of the Trinity has been with us from the start since it is rather a logical extension of what is said in the Bible more than a few times. Church leaders did not just wake up on 325 AD and say “hey, look what I just made up...”

58 posted on 10/05/2011 11:49:52 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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