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To: Campion; daniel1212
Not sure how you figure that those are "closer," since the Greek words for "overseer" and "elder" are the direct ancestors of our English words "bishop" and "priest".

Except the NT was NOT WRITTEN IN ENGLISH ..it was written in GREEK

There is a word for priest in greek and it is NEVER USED FOR THE NEW CHURCH. That word is "hiereus", the greek word for elder is presbyteros''', IT never translates as PRIEST

The defination for elder/ Presbyteros is
2) a term of rank or office
a) among the Jews 1) members of the great council or Sanhedrin (because in early times the rulers of the people, judges, etc., were selected from elderly men)


2) of those who in separate cities managed public affairs and administered justice

b) among the Christians, those who presided over the assemblies (or churches)

The NT uses the term bishop, elders, and presbyters interchangeably


c) the twenty four members of the heavenly Sanhedrin or court seated on thrones around the throne of God
[Elders is a leadership role, not a roll of sacrificer .with the elders and scribes and the whole council, and bound Jesus, and carried him away, and delivered him to Pilate.

The priests were not elders and the elders were not priests

Act 4:5 ¶ And it came to pass on the morrow] that their rulers ( archōn), and elders ( presbyteros), and scribes (grammateus),

Act 4:6 And Annas the high priest (archiereus), and Caiaphas, and John, and Alexander, and as many as were of the kindred of the high priest (archiereus), were gathered together at Jerusalem.

Young's Literal Translation


Acts 4:5 And it came to pass upon the morrow, there were gathered together of them the rulers, and elders, and scribes, to Jerusalem,
Act 4:6 and Annas the chief priest, and Caiaphas, and John, and Alexander, and as many as were of the kindred of the chief priest,

Even the Douay-Rheims Bible does not translate that as priests.. Acts 4:5 And it came to pass on the morrow, that their princes (,archōn) and ancients, (presbyteros) and scribes,(grammateus) were gathered together in Jerusalem;

As you see the latin translation from the Greek is CORRECT ... presbyteros /Elders are ancients that is the actual translation.. to the Jews the presbyterors were the older members of the community.. the wisdom of the community so ancients is correct..

The ORIGINAL latin translation did not try to make elders Priests..completely different roles to the Jews

There was NO PRIESTHOOD in the church is later than 300 AD..

Greg Dues has written Catholic Customs & Traditions, a popular guide (New London: Twenty Third Publications, 2007). On page 166 he states, "Priesthood as we know it in the Catholic church was unheard of during the first generation of Christianity, because at that time priesthood was still associated with animal sacrifices in both the Jewish and pagan religions."

"A clearly defined local leadership in the form of elders, or presbyteroi, became still more important when the original apostles and disciples of Jesus died. The chief elder in each community was often called the episkopos (Greek, 'overseer'). In English this came to be translated as 'bishop' (Latin, episcopus). Ordinarily he presided over the community's Eucharistic assembly."

"When the Eucharist came to be regarded as a sacrifice, the role of the bishop took on a priestly dimension. By the third century bishops were considered priests. Presbyters or elders sometimes substituted for the bishop at the Eucharist. By the end of the third century people all over were using the title 'priest' (hierus in Greek and sacerdos in Latin) for whoever presided at the Eucharist."

31 posted on 10/07/2011 10:23:44 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7

Thanks.


38 posted on 10/07/2011 11:37:09 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Our sinful deeds condemn us, but Christ's death and resurrection gains salvation. Repent +Believe)
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To: RnMomof7
On page 166 he states, "Priesthood as we know it in the Catholic church was unheard of during the first generation of Christianity, because at that time priesthood was still associated with animal sacrifices in both the Jewish and pagan religions."

Greg Dues has never actually read Ignatius, or Justin Martyr, or any of the other Apostolic Fathers, has he? He's just blissfully ignorant of everything that took place in "the first generation of Christianity," and nevertheless thinks he's entitled to pontificate (and I choose the word deliberately) on it.

43 posted on 10/07/2011 7:37:09 PM PDT by Campion ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies when they become fashions." -- GKC)
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