Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Dutchboy88
Some humans (being managed like dishes) are.

Which makes absolutely no difference to what they "can" do based on your exhortations, which is absolutely ... nothing. Full determinism, as I said, puts all "can" squarely on God's shoulders. You would be more self-consistent to pray that God would lead me out of Catholicism. Even that isn't very self-consistent.

Now go read it and tell me you see nothing there.

I assume you're talking about 6:37-39?

All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. ... 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing

Nobody's talking about Jesus losing anyone of those the Father has given him. God foresees who will reprobate himself, and who will not, and he doesn't give Jesus any reprobates.

That has nothing to do with whether or not reprobation is the free choice of the reprobate, or is conditional on those free choices, or anything like that. (God foresees all of those free choices, too, but does so without coercing them.)

Romans 9:16ff

The context of which concerns nations, not specific individuals, and consists of Paul reasoning out what God could be doing that would cause him to leave Israel out in the cold while offering salvation to the Gentiles.

But that leads me back to an error you made in an earlier post, confusing what God can do with what God actually does do. There is no question that God is capable of completely determining every thought I have and every action I take. That's not what the argument is. The argument is over what he actually does do, most of the time.

Did the father in the Parable of the Prodigal Son drive his son away, or did he merely permit him to leave?

51 posted on 10/10/2011 6:27:03 PM PDT by Campion ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies when they become fashions." -- GKC)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies ]


To: Campion
"I assume you're talking about 6:37-39?"

No. Read on. John 6:43, 44 "Jesus answered and said to them, 'Do not grumble among yourselves. No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws Him; and I will raise him up on the last day." 6:64, 65 " 'But there are some of you who do not believe' For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. And He was saying, 'For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father.'" This does have to do with those being elect before the foundation of the world.

Your error is that you view God as a very big man. Smart, adaptive, creative...but a large man. He is not that, but the Catholic Church has revised man's role into godlike creatures. That is why they pray to men and women. They view them as equals to God. The Scriptures disagree. That, however, does not stop Rome. Rome has authority over all...or so it thinks. Lucifer, too, was self-deceived.

Think carefully about your argument. If men were really free, then God could not possibly know what it is that they were going to do tomorrow. Why not? Because they may change their minds and act apart from Him. If He knows what will happen tomorrow, then those events are fixed and unchangeable. The Scriptures state that they are fixed because He is managing their occurrence. Even the roll of the dice.

That this bothers Rome is inconsequential. They are bothered by almost anything that paints them as the buffoons they are. They strain to supplant God at every turn. Nevertheless, there is a God of Heaven and Earth, the Holy One of Israel, who directs all, bringing calamity when necessary and rescue to those whom He chooses.

66 posted on 10/11/2011 8:13:53 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson