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To: cuban leaf

Luther used the analogy of snow on a dung heap to describe what Christ did.

Christ is the snow that covers our sins, but we remain dung.

The Catholic/Orthodox view is that the grace we receive as a result of Christ’s act on the cross cleanses us and transfigures our souls.

This process continues until the Last Judgment when the elect enter heaven. Purgatory/the bosom of Abraham/paradies as Eastern Christians call it will cease to exist at the Last Judgment.

Our prayers comfort the dead as they await the Last Judgment and assist them to enter heaven faster. We don’t know whether a soul is damned or saved, so praying for their souls is an act of charity.

Our prayers merely ask God to show mercy on their souls. It’s God’s decision whether they enter heaven or hell.


87 posted on 11/02/2011 12:47:36 PM PDT by rzman21
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To: rzman21

I see the disconnect. This does demonstrate how a seemingly subtle change in beliefs can alter a religion significantly.

I’ve heard it said that two men can have, as their top three priorities, Family, health and job, yet be two completely different men, depending on the order they put those priorities.

In this case, I see myself as someone who will need the blood of Christ as much the day I die as I did before I accepted Him as my savior. The reason is simple. A little leaven leavens the whole loaf. Any sin at all makes me unworthy. And Christ made it clear with his “looks at a woman with lust in his heart” that I am damned without his covering.

This means I agree with Luther.

Also, I do not believe in the existence of purgatory. I believe you live, you die, and you face judgement. Which direction you go at judgement depends on whether you are written in the book of life. And that depends on whether I trusted in the blood of Christ to cover my sins. And even then, there is this:


1 Corinthians 3:14-16

If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?


I believe all my efforts to be good in any way to be “more deserving” of an eternal relationship with God are misguided. My efforts should be for one purpose only: to please Him.


146 posted on 11/03/2011 4:35:19 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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