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To: American in Israel
I'm not making any "excuses," I'm simply stipulating as to facts. The Inquisition wasn't allowed to try non-Catholics, so if they did so, they were acting outside the authority granted them by the Church.

(As an aside, they were sufficiently abusive of that authority to be chastised by Rome on several occasions, and when they were finally shut down in the 1820's, the Spanish government did so without bothering to consult Rome.)

Penalties were the responsibility of the government (as they always were), and the Spanish government wasn't executing Jews for being Jews. They deported them. That was of course unjust; nobody disputes that.

There are several good books out there now which treat the Inquisition quite accurately. One of the best scholars on the topic is a Jewish historian -- I believe he's at Yale -- named Henry Kamen.

Let's stick to facts, and not emotional appeals to hatred and suspicion over something that happened 500 years ago.

64 posted on 11/05/2011 8:33:35 PM PDT by Campion ("It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins." -- Franklin)
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To: Campion
This is about the perceived offenses from Christianity against the Jewish people through the years. The many pograms and persecution's done in the name of the Church.

This is not about history, yours, mine or theirs. This is about the fact that many many Jews were killed by people professing to be from the church of christ. In particular the orthodox sects of the Church, that persecute them TO THIS DAY inside their own nation.

It is not about excuses, its about remembered death and destruction at the hands of those who claim to be representing the Church. What one pope said, vs another really means little to those who have lost family in the most horrible ways than man can devise. The reason Jews became Catholics was persecution, the tuning around and burning at the stake was just further persecution in their mind, they really never saw themselves as property of the pope to be burned alive at his whim just because they were forced to convert. Your deliberate obtuseness and tireless effort to make Catholic apologetics about the inquisition does not excuse it in any way. Does a man, when he turns his life over to Christ become mere chattle of the Italian church to be tortured because some "Church Leader" decides that his live does not meet the sects requirements for a life in Christ? Does it excuse the mass burnings of Jews for the Black Death? The hounding of Jews from Poland, Spain England in their pograms? The open anti-semitism of the Orthodox Churchs to this day? It is not about you, your man who is god on the throne here on earth that cannot be questioned, or what ever history you wish to excuse, it is about blood and honor and what has happened, not what we want to explain it away with. 31000 people murdered, over doctrine. Love your neighbor as yourself, unless it is your brother and he stumbles, then burn him alive? ...WRONG ANSWER... Get that? The Pope was wrong! Even if he is unquestionable, He sinned horribly, no question needed. By his own standards he will be judged before the Lord of Hosts. Have mercy, it is a better path.

70 posted on 11/06/2011 8:35:52 AM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: Campion
This is about the perceived offenses from Christianity against the Jewish people through the years. The many pograms and persecution's done in the name of the Church.

This is not about history, yours, mine or theirs. This is about the fact that many many Jews were killed by people professing to be from the church of christ. In particular the orthodox sects of the Church, that persecute them TO THIS DAY inside their own nation.

It is not about excuses, its about remembered death and destruction at the hands of those who claim to be representing the Church. What one pope said, vs another really means little to those who have lost family in the most horrible ways than man can devise. The reason Jews became Catholics was persecution, the tuning around and burning at the stake was just further persecution in their mind, they really never saw themselves as property of the pope to be burned alive at his whim just because they were forced to convert. Your deliberate obtuseness and tireless effort to make Catholic apologetics about the inquisition does not excuse it in any way. Does a man, when he turns his life over to Christ become mere chattle of the Italian church to be tortured because some "Church Leader" decides that his live does not meet the sects requirements for a life in Christ? Does it excuse the mass burnings of Jews for the Black Death? The hounding of Jews from Poland, Spain England in their pograms? The open anti-semitism of the Orthodox Churchs to this day? It is not about you, your man who is god on the throne here on earth that cannot be questioned, or what ever history you wish to excuse, it is about blood and honor and what has happened, not what we want to explain it away with. 31000 people murdered, over doctrine. Love your neighbor as yourself, unless it is your brother and he stumbles, then burn him alive? ...WRONG ANSWER... Get that? The Pope was wrong! Even if he is unquestionable, He sinned horribly, no question needed. By his own standards he will be judged before the Lord of Hosts. Have mercy, it is a better path.

71 posted on 11/06/2011 8:39:54 AM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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