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To: SumProVita
Honestly, I think you need to get some teaching from good sources within the clergy who are faithful to the Teaching Magisterium. You might talk to your parish pastor about how to go about that where you live.

I have done so.

Think about St. Gregory VII (Pope: 1073 to 1085) and what he said to the Muslim King Anazir of Maurentania: “... we believe in and confess the same God, although by different modes (licet diverso modo), that we praise and venerate each day the Creator of the ages and master of this world” [St. Gregory VII, Letter III, 21 to Anazir (Al-Nasir), King of Mauretania PL, 148. 451A.] Was Gregory VII in error? Vatican II is stating nothing different than what he stated in the 11th century.

Popes do not redefine official Catholic doctrine in ambiguous diplomatic flattery to non-Catholic fellow heads of state. The pope was likely negotiating to avoid a war. Not every utterance from a pope in any situation is taken as doctrine. Did Gregory VII say anything like this in encyclical format? The 1910 Catholic Encyclopedia does not even mention this supposed letter of Pope Gregory VII. Was this supposed letter ever cited in Church documents prior to Vatican II?

What about a good Muslim who sincerely LOVES God and is not familiar with Jesus Christ personally? Who will judge him?

There is no salvation except through Jesus Christ. As Catholics, we believe He founded His Catholic Church as the sacramental means for receiving that salvation. If it is possible for a Muslim to be saved, it would be much more difficult outside the Church and would only happen in spite of his false religion not because of it. The passage on Muslims previously quoted from Nostra Aetate is diplomatic flattery, not doctrine.

If you read all of Nostra Aetate, you will see clearly that Islam is NOT considered equal to Christianity. In addition, you need to read the other contextual sections of the Catechism. It makes it clear. The Church states unequivocally that Jesus is the WAY and that salvation is only found through HIM.

Yes, Vatican II documents contradict themselves in many places. That just makes these documents all the more nonsensical. Doctrine is misunderstood if it is not presented with clarity and consistency, as we have witnessed in abundance since the disaster of Vatican II.

50 posted on 12/10/2011 5:57:04 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: mas cerveza por favor

“Vatican II documents contradict themselves in many places. That just makes these documents all the more nonsensical. Doctrine is misunderstood if it is not presented with clarity and consistency, as we have witnessed in abundance since the disaster of Vatican II.”

Wow! I had no idea that I was posting to some great theologian and scholar who knows more than the Church leaders.
Perhaps you ought to volunteer to go to the Vatican and explain all this to them so that THEY will understand as well as you just how nonsensical the documents are.


53 posted on 12/10/2011 7:31:52 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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