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To: patlin
Talk about reading in snippets, it is not I that does,

Grammar can be tricky I know, but comprehension even more so

Romans 3 says 20: Because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified before him. For by the law is the knowledge of sin. as well as
21. But now without the law the justice of God is made manifest, being witnessed by the law and the prophets -- Paul talks of ripping the Torah's laws such as circumcision, so hence your statement above about Paul teaching the Torah is wrong.

let's repeat your statement about Paul again -- I can not seem to find the verses in Scripture wherein Paul say not to keep Torah. Where Paul out right rejected circumcision. -- evidently whoever this "we" is, doesn't read Galatians 5:2-3
2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

And evidently this "we" doesn't read Corinthians either where Paul says Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. 1 Cor 7:18

So pretty evidently your statement about Paul (above) is incorrect, as is your other statement ON THE CONTRAIRE, WE DO READ FROM THE 1ST CENTURY WRITINGS -- unless Galatians and 1 Corinthians are not in what this "we" read.

203 posted on 12/27/2011 12:18:10 AM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: Cronos
Romans 3 says 20: Because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified before him

1st of all, one can not take a “snippet” without 1st understanding the context of what is being said. Paul starts Romans 3 off by saying: 1 What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? 2 Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Certainly not!

Justification is NOT the same thing as blessing. All the apostles knew the difference between justification and faith which is love. Paul then ends Romans 3 with this:

31 Do we then nullify the Torah through the belief? Let it not be! On the contrary, we establish the Torah

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

We are not to separate Messiah from His Father and we are not to separate the Father's children from His Word and the ONLY Word they had during the time of Messiah was the Torah, God's instructions for life in His house and He said that they are not burdensome for it is through them that ALL blessing comes.

Gal 3:13 Messiah redeemed us from the curse(penalty of death) of the Torah, having become a curse for us 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the nations in Messiah Yeshua

Corinthians is about the works of the Talmud(oral law), not the works of the Torah of God. It is about boastful religious men adding notches to their belts so they can go around boasting saying that “So & so was baptized or circumcised in that boastful religious person's name." Period.

When one accepts Messiah and starts learning Torah, it is the “Spirit” in their hearts that does the works, not the flesh or the carnal mind because those things were put to death so to speak so that the “Spirit” would now be the one guiding all ones actions. That is what it means to “Let His Light shine before the world”. I get it, it's just too bad the doctrine of Christendom rejected it. Messiah did not come to start a new church, he came only for the lost sheep of Israel. Can pagan gentiles enter into covenant? Of course it called grafting in aka adoption. One doesn't adopt a child and then let them live as they wish disregarding the house rules. A loving Father instructs, guides and disciplines in love.

And thus the problem with the world today, unruly children who disregard authority, starting in home where parents have conceded and thereby giving their authority over to the children, all inthe name of greasy grace. And hence all the different doctrines of Christendom, all the children doing as they please rather than what pleases the Father.

Does the Father want all his male children to be circumcised? Yes. Is it required for salvation? NO But it is required in order to gain the blessings that come from it.

Greasy grace is a nasty slimy thing that is the works of the devil, not of God.

207 posted on 12/27/2011 8:42:27 AM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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