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To: RnMomof7
Sorry guys.the pope says we are out

"Out" of what, exactly? For a Catholic Pope to observe that Protestant bodies are not "true churches" or "churches properly so-called" is equivalent to noting that they don't have Apostolic succession (and in most cases, don't believe that it exists anyway).

So you're "out of" the Catholic church and "in to" an organization that rejects Apostolic succession as both Catholics and Eastern Orthodox understand it. But you already knew that, which means that the Pope doesn't consider you anymore "out" than you already consider yourself. So what's your point?

Incidentally, doesn't the PCA consider the Pope pretty much completely "out" ... out of Christianity, out of salvation, etc.?

184 posted on 01/02/2012 6:05:46 PM PST by Campion ("It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins." -- Franklin)
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To: Campion; RnMomof7
"Out" of what, exactly? For a Catholic Pope to observe that Protestant bodies are not "true churches" or "churches properly so-called" is equivalent to noting that they don't have Apostolic succession (and in most cases, don't believe that it exists anyway).

Out of the *Church* which means out of salvation and out of heaven.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P29.HTM

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15126a.htm

The Bull lays down dogmatic propositions on the unity of the Church, the necessity of belonging to it for eternal salvation, the position of the pope as supreme head of the Church, and the duty thence arising of submission to the pope in order to belong to the Church and thus to attain salvation.

Then follow some principles and conclusions concerning the spiritual and the secular power:

"Now, therefore, we declare, say, determine and pronounce that for every human creature it is necessary for salvation to be subject to the authority of the Roman pontiff" (Porro subesse Romano Pontifici omni humanae creaturae declaramus, dicimus, definimus, et pronuntiamus omnino esse de necessitate salutis).

192 posted on 01/02/2012 6:18:35 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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