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To: rzman21
As you already should know by now, I don't accept the Roman Catholic "interpretation" of Scripture especially as it relates to justification. God imputes to us the righteousness of Christ not our own righteousness. We are found IN HIM, not having our own righteousness. Catholicism teaches infused grace rather than imputed grace. That's why the Mass is deemed so critical to salvation - because the Eucharist is viewed as a portion of grace "credited" to the receiver as long as they received it in the proper way (sins all confessed and penances completed). Yet, God does NOT impute our sins to us when we are redeemed by Christ.

Only blood makes an atonement for sin so that is one critical area that Catholicism has gone off the tracks. The idea that "penance" must be done as part of attaining atonement. Nowhere in Scripture is that ever taught. When we receive Jesus Christ as Savior, are born again into the family of God, all our sins are covered by the blood of Christ - we are washed clean by his precious blood. That is past, present and even future sins, because Christ's sacrifice was "once for all". I know some of you guys hear that and go bananas because you envision we are encouraging a sinning free-for-all. "Hey", you say, "You can rob a bank, rape someone, kill someone and you're still going to Heaven?" and when I hear this, it becomes obvious that two things are present. First, that we must do works to be saved, and second, that we must do works - or not do bad things - in order to stay saved.

We know from Scripture that we are saved by grace APART from works. It is through faith that we acquire God's grace gift of eternal life. That means we do nothing to earn or merit that gift. If we did, then it is no longer a gift. We also know from Scripture that when we come to saving faith in Christ, we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, who is the "earnest of our inheritance", sealed until the day of redemption. We have a new nature - a spirit nature - that, through the power of God, frees us from the pull of the old sin nature. We have been freed from the power of sin in our lives, freed to live lives that are holy and pleasing to God. When we DO sin, we do not lose our salvation, because we did not gain it in the first place by good works or not sinning. We are kept by that same grace of God. He, as our Heavenly Father, disciplines and corrects us to conform us to the image of Christ, but nothing we do can UNDO that new birth. THAT is what imputed righteousness is. Through no merit or works of our own, God makes us as righteous as Christ because we are found IN Him. Covered by his blood, our sins are washed away and God no longer imputes our sin to us. As far as the east is from the west so far has he removed our sins from us. That is why David, in the Psalm, says blessed is the man to whom God will not impute sin.

When you say, "St. Paul isn’t sanctioning a dead static faith with God that is once and done.", I answer of course he doesn't. But neither does he teach that works MUST accompany faith in order to be salvific. Works NEVER merit anything towards our salvation, that's why it is all by grace. If works had to be added to the equation, then grace would not be grace. So, I disagree totally with your contention that Protestants believe "Christ’s righteousness covers us like snow on a dunghill". That is quite incorrect because only in the Old Testament sacrificial system was sin "covered". The blood of the sacrifice was a temporary measure only until Christ, the Messiah, came and shed his blood to take sin away completely. What was an "expiation" became a "propitiation" and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. When God looks at us, he sees the righteousness of Christ. The righteousness that is IMPUTED to us by grace through faith.

263 posted on 01/02/2012 10:44:42 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: boatbums

We know from Scripture that we are saved by grace APART from works.
>>St. Paul is referring to the 613 Levitical laws, not keeping the commandments to love your neighbor as yourself.

As St. Paul also says in Romans 2:13,”for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.”

This echoes St. James in James 2:24. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

And James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

St. Gregory of Sinai summarizes the Catholic/Orthodox view on faith better than anyone who I have seen.
St. Gregory of Sinai, a 13th century Greek monk, who is considered a saint by Catholics and Orthodox alike writes the following in his treatise: “On Commandments and Doctrines”

“Grace-imbued faith, energized by the Holy Spirit, alone suffices for salvation, provided we sustain it and do not opt for a dead and effectual faith rather than a living and effective faith in Christ.”
http://bit.ly/saddKM

Penance serves to humble the heart of the believer to being a better follower of Christ because he can only be served with humility.

And St. Mark the Ascetic, a 4th century Desert Father teaches:
18. Some without fulfilling the commandments think that they possess true faith.
Others fulfil the commandments and then expect the kingdom as a reward due to
them. Both are mistaken.
19. A master is under no obligation to reward his slaves; on the other hand, those who
do not serve him well are not given their freedom.
20. If ‘Christ died on our account in accordance with the Scriptures’ (Rm 5:8; 1Co
15:3), and we do not ‘live for ourselves’, but ‘for Him who died and rose’ on our
account (2Co 5:15), it is clear that we are debtors to Christ to serve Him till our
death. How then can we regard sonship as something which is our due?
21. Christ is Master by virtue of His own essence and Master by virtue of His incarnate
life. For He creates man from nothing, and through His own Blood redeems him
when dead in sin; and to those who believe in Him He has given His grace.22. When Scripture says ‘He will reward every man according to his works’ (Mt 16:27),
do not imagine that works in themselves merit either hell or the kingdom. On the
contrary, Christ rewards each man according to whether his works are done with
faith or without faith in Himself; and He is not a dealer bound by contract, but God
our Creator and Redeemer.

First, that we must do works to be saved, and second, that we must do works - or not do bad things - in order to stay saved.
>>That is Catholic teaching as well. Catholics and Protestants define the same terms differently, so if you want to understand rather than misrepresent Catholic teaching, you need to understand the Catholic definition.

It’s like using a Spanish dictionary to read English or vice versa.

So, I disagree totally with your contention that Protestants believe “Christ’s righteousness covers us like snow on a dunghill”.
>>Those were Martin Luther’s words not mine. One’s I’m most familiar with as a former Lutheran.

I’ll get to your other points later.

But I think we can agree that it is grace that saves us and that apart from grace the works we do are worthless.

Scholasticism’s tendency to overthink matters of faith is a big reason why I’m not fond of it.


282 posted on 01/03/2012 7:07:00 AM PST by rzman21
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To: boatbums

Preach it, sister.


292 posted on 01/03/2012 11:52:10 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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