Posted on 01/07/2012 6:00:19 PM PST by rzman21
Good post, thanks for the ping. I’m too exhausted to rebut now, but will follow the replies...
The Scriptures alone are not sufficient cause God couldn’t get them right, and we need Special leaders to fill in the blanks.
>>The problem is with the readers. Read the article.
Let me guess, The Scriptures alone are not sufficient cause God couldn’t get them right, and we need Special leaders to fill in the blanks.No, Holy Scripture actually tells us to do certain things and to understand that not all was written. For example:
“Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’ “
Methodism is in similar state of liberal turmoil.
Usually the case. Remember, it’s always a risk to gloss over the background behind all those great Church councils of the past ~ they happened for reasons ~ but when they were done, if they were lucky, they avoided rejecting the past. I guess sometimes they “failed”.
Now how could you miss that, and then they sprinkle babies.
My goodness fella, there are commonalities galore in that crowd.
I suspect Mormons do too, but that doesn’t make them either Orthodox or Catholic.
We’ve gone over that numerous times. No sense getting into it because this is a case where someone has posted a major work and wecan discuss it. I’ve been reading through it while you were pontificating.
The Orthodox don’t kneel for communion, nor do they sprinkle babies.
They do a lot of extra stuff but they have huge Jesus statues in their Temples.
No sense getting into it because this is a case where someone has posted a major work and wecan discuss it.Really? Often in a discussion, questions are asked and answered. You seem to have trouble with that answering thing.
I’ve been reading through it while you were pontificating.Good. Now that you have read it, can you maybe take the time to answer a question about what you posted?
I was not referring to Orthodox at that point.
My understanding too is that the eastern orthodox and for that matter most christian sects like the marionites and whatever christian sects have in recent decades been evicted from araby— all these have been spared the higher criticism school.
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I think the roots of ecclesiastical rationalism were sown by the scholastics.
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I saw your argument on that earlier—but I thought it was a pretty thin reed. not because you could not see similarities in their mode of thinking but rather because scholasticism was not the main driver of...for want of a better term ....”modernity”.
why?
for scholasticism to be the main driver of modernity—either the catholic or the protestant churches would have had to be dominant going into the modern age—because scholasticism would have need of a dominant religious carrier.
However, the problem is that both the catholic and protestant churches went into eclipse in europe after the 30 years war in Europe; 1619-1649.
What we know as the enlightenment of the 1700’s (or the 18th century) is the ascendency of state power. and state power needed a different driver for legitimacy than either the catholic or protestant churches which it usurped.
consider the great losers of the 30 years war 1619-1649. were both the catholic and protestant churches. In the catholic church the reason they lost was because state power triumphed over papal power. The catholic church has been in continuous decline ever since. protestant church lost and specifically the greatest losers were the calvinists. that’s why most of the churches in the 13 colonies were calvinists.(the church of england then as now took on the colors of the age—then it was calvinist in the colonies) this was true of the puritans, the presbyerians, the german swiss dutch and swedish reformed churches were all calvinsts as were the french hugonauts. their monument to the world was the american constitution.(the idea of a limited government, separation of powers, a federalist system and balance of power —sprang from the very calvinist madison and his friends.) But the calvinists in the USA instantly went into decline after the revolution. By the 1840’s they were in a minority in the USA as larger methodist and baptist denominations became the majority. (only much later did the catholics become the majority in the USA.)
Now remember the historical point. You need a driver or a carrier for an idea. state power has been increasing for several centuries. Since both the catholic church and the protestant church have been in relative decline for the last several centuries—then the main driver of modernism has to be elsewhere.
and of course you have heard my other arguments on this matter—the greeks. that is, what everyone learns in high school and college. and it is used in the service of state power.
They have that in common with many Catholics too, mostly of the clerical class.
Remove tongue from cheek now.
In 1900 all Christian Denominations condemned divorce, only Catholics and Orthodox do now. In the 1920's all Christian denominations condemned Contraception, only Catholics and Orthodox do now. In the 1950 all Christian denominations condemned abortion, most accept or are muted now, except for Catholics and Orthodox. In the 1970's most (not all) condemned homosexual unions, the Catholic and Orthodox (and only a few Protestant denomination) still do so.
Both Catholics and Orthodox maintain that Tradition must be the light that translates Scripture. Scripture without an interpreter is meaningless as the constant change in Protestant theology demonstrates. Moreover, without Tradition, we would never know what is Scripture.
Exactly.
In the 1950 all Christian denominations condemned abortion, most accept or are muted now, except for Catholics and Orthodox. In the 1970’s most (not all) condemned homosexual unions, the Catholic and Orthodox (and only a few Protestant denomination) still do so.
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this is only true of liberal protestant denominations—that have become a shrinking minority among protestants.
I don’t understand the Orthodox opposition to the Bishop of Rome.
It’s a long post.
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