Mary: Mother of God?

What Does the Bible say? ^ | 01/11/2012 | Bro. Lev Humphries,

[verga]

so the human nature of Jesus didn’t survive? the false teaching just gets deeper.

Well, what part of Jesus died on the cross? There ARE only two options: His human nature, or His divine nature. If you disagree that His human nature died, then by default you must accept that it was His divine nature which died. Now what?

Both His divine and humans natures died on the cross. He then went to preach tot he spirits in prision (1 Peter 3:18). On the third day he arose again in a glorified incorupptable body. The same real physical body that Thomas probed the wounds with his finger.

Wintertime you need to address some of these issues

[verga]

He did not call her mother He called her as Woman. It was John who wrote mother not Jesus.

You need to go back to Genesis and see why Adam addressed Eve as "Woman."

[verga]

Semantics will get you no where. Jesus human form received it’s divinity at conception.

Admit it you screwed up and professed heresey, you are just ticked becasue you got caught.

[dangus]

It’s not surprising that the doctrine that concerning Mary spread forth from Ephesus, since Mary was put in the care of John (John 19:26), and John was exiled to Ephesus, where Paul had preached.

But you’re attacking the title of “Mother of God,” based on your own misunderstanding of the title which is not possible in Greek. “Mother of” could be alternately translated as “One who gave birth to.” The Emphasis of Ephesus was that even in the womb, Jesus was God. He was not a human who acquired divinity, nor who was combined with a foreign entity which was God. No, Mary borne God.

But no divine nature passed from Mary to God. If you’re concerned that’s why Catholics call her “mother of God,” you’re worrying over nothing. Again. Why not go worry about fraternities, freemasons, Chrislamists, or something?

[CynicalBear]

>>Just So we are clear<<

I haven’t seen Catholics clear on anything yet but I’ll try.

>>you don't beleive Jesus was divine until His conception, here on earth.<<

That’s not what I said. I know Catholics seem to get used to the double speak out of Rome and even use it themselves but I’ll give it my best shot to explain. It was Jesus human body that was joined with His divine nature at conception. You see, Jesus didn’t have a human body throughout all of eternity.

[CynicalBear]

>>Nice try, kid, but your cherry picking has failed, yet again.
"After that, He saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother. And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own." John 19:27<<

Did you notice that Jesus called her John’s mother? He did not say behold “my mother” did he? Calling me a kid and saying I failed then showing an obvious lack of reading comprehension on your part didn’t help your cause.

[Mad Dawg]

I don’t much follow the RF anymore.

Also, you will note that more than half an hour passed between my post and your response. I was asleep when you asked your question. I make it a rule not to surf the net when I’m asleep.

But it wasn’t the topic that I thought needed a rest. So my reaction to a thread on the topic of the Theotokos wouldn’t really be germane.

[jacknhoo]

If you and others of the same error, desire in denying the reality of the incarnation, it is of your own free will.

It is a sad position to take seeing that, from this same miracle of which you are in denial of, you turn to for your salvation.

A cutting off your soul, to spite the truth, kind of act.

Death through Eve, Life through Mary.

I think you are uneasy about this and this is why you post so frequently on this subject. The Truth is written in your heart and for some reason, possibly unknown even to yourself, you have spent a great deal of time wrestling with the uneasiness...seeking to use intellect to quench the fire of uneasiness.

A word of friendly advice, humble yourself and the truth will be easy to see and you can then, more easily, correct your errors.

The obstacle of pride will be obliterated with humility. There is no shame in admitting what your heart knows is true, even if that truth goes against a mountain of past and public denial.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

We fly to your patronage, O holy Mother of God.
Despise not our petitions in our necessities,
But deliver us from all dangers,
O ever-glorious and Blessed Virgin!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[dangus]

>> I think they went overboard by calling Mary the Mother of God because look at all the consternation it has caused <<

Catholic creates a doctrine.
Protestant needs another reason to hate Catholic, so he refutes the doctrine.
Catholic affirms doctrine in scripture AND in tradition.
Protestant says, “Yes, but that doctrine causes so much consternation; shouldn’t we just throw it out?”

Try this: Quit attacking scripture and the Church fathers, and there won’t be any consternation.

“...not to mention the developing dogmas that were invented outside of Holy Scripture that gave her attributes reserved to God alone.”

Pope: God redeemed the world through Mary! And she chose to be used for this!
Saint: Without needing to be born again?
Pope: No, of her own will!
Saint: That means she willingly participated in the salvation of the world! That would make her co-redemptrix!
Pope: Better not use that term. Protestants would be confused into thinking that we were making her an equivalent to Christ. She had no power to do so on her own, but relied on God. God, being God, chose to involve her.
Saint: But you see what I mean?
Pope: Yes. You’re not a heretic. But just don’t give her that title. It’ll cause consternation.
Protestant: The Catholics are calling Mary co-redemptrix!
Catholic: No, we’re not. We see how the word could confuse you, so we agree: not worth the consternation.
Protestant: Look here, Saint called her that. You’re making her a goddess AND you’re lying about it!

[CynicalBear]

>>Flour is profitable for a perfect cake, but far from all you need.<<

I don’t suppose you read the entire verse. It gives the entire recipe then says it’s perfect and thoroughly furnished unto all good works. Why would you then compare it to a cake and use just the flour part? Is the cake perfect and thoroughly furnished to become a cake with just the flour? "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for DOCTRINE, for REPROOF, for CORRECTION, for INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS: That the man of GOd may be PERFECT, THOROUGHLY FURNISHED unto all good works." 2 Tim. 3:16-17.

Paul wouldn’t have used the words

perfect, thoroughly furnished if he was talking about just the flour part of a cake. He was showing the “cake” would be a perfect, thoroughly furnished to be a cake. Catholics can try to twist the words all they want to try to God’s word to no avail in an attempt to justify the “doctrines of man” from the RCC but it’s still “doctrines of man”.

[verga]

You were asked: When did He acquire his divinity? You replied in English): < From the Holy Spirit at conception.

That’s not what I said.

That is what you said exactly word for word.

I know Catholics seem to get used to the double speak out of Rome and even use it themselves but I’ll give it my best shot to explain. It was Jesus human body that was joined with His divine nature at conception. You see, Jesus didn’t have a human body throughout all of eternity.

Seriously, I quoted you directly and you want to accuse Catholics (Rome) of double speak.

This is the part where you say: "Hey look I screwed up and you catholics were right."

Now I know that you don't have the ability or the integrity to admit that Catholics are correct about anything, but you might sit and think about it.

[CynicalBear]

>>"But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written." John 21:2<<

And obviously not needed for us to be “PERFECT, THOROUGHLY FURNISHED”.

>>"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle." 2 Thessalonians 2:15<<

And “search the scriptures daily to see if these things be true” just as Paul commended the Bereans for doing even with his own teaching.

>>"As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:16<<

1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Not too hard for the Holy Spirit to understand wouldn’t you say? I suppose if you are relying on man to teach you then it is rather “hard to understand”.

[CynicalBear]

>> It shows that scripture’s isn’t self-evident to people who read it without the light of Tradition.<<

Mark 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

[gghd]

You are right! You are absolutely right! There is a difference between Jesus Christ & the Bible. We are called to Worship God above all things & not a Bible.

I was trying to apply this passage when I was encouraging people to read the Bible. 2Timothy 3:16, ‘All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that one who belongs to God may be competent, equipped for every good work.’

Jesus is the Word of God. John 1: 1&3,> ‘In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...All things came to be through Him, and without Him nothing came to be.’ Holy Scripture & all of creation came to be through Jesus Christ. + All scripture & the rest of all creation can be summed up in ONE word. = The Word is Jesus.

Thank you for defending the True Faith. +For everyone (including me): ‘We can all get to Heaven as the road to Heaven is built on this Commandment: ‘Love God above all things & love your neighbor as yourself.’

[CynicalBear]

>>Is your mother not the mother of your daddy parts?<<

You’re saying I received my Y chromosome from my mother? You may want to study up on that before making comments like that on a public forum. My father always used the line “it’s better to allow people to think you are uneducated then to open your mouth and prove them right”.

[CynicalBear]

It’s easy to prove me wrong. Simply find a place in scripture where Jesus called Mary His mother. Using the “wisdom of man” or “carnal knowledge” doesn’t replace scripture. If you can’t you may want to check the guy in the pointy hat in Rome for tell tale signs of “controlled substances”. I’ve heard that those that use them sometimes think they are infallible like he does. He’s the only one who claims infallibility that I know of. Just sayin.

[verga]

And “search the scriptures daily to see if these things be true” just as Paul commended the Bereans for doing even with his own teaching.

Was Paul talking about the KJV or the Hebrew Scriptures.

[aruanan]

>>Is your mother not the mother of your daddy parts?<<

You’re saying I received my Y chromosome from my mother?

Unwarranted assumption, but understandable in your need for something polemical. The fact is that a mother is a mother to whoever is born of her, regardless of gender. And, for what it's worth, the default fetus phenotypically is female, even if genetically it is XY. It isn't until later in development that the androgenizing hormones convert the female body plan into that of the male body.

[CynicalBear]

Here’s what Jesus says about things that go in the belly.

Matthew 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?

Do you also eat scrolls?

Ezek 3:1 Moreover he said unto me, Son of man, eat that thou findest; eat this scroll, and go speak unto the house of Israel. 2 So I opened my mouth, and he caused me to eat that scroll. 3 And he said unto me, Son of man, cause thy belly to eat, and fill thy bowels with this roll that I give thee. Then did I eat it; and it was in my mouth as honey for sweetness.

Maybe you could explain to us how Catholics physically eat words.

Jer 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

Or was He talking about spiritual things?

1 Corinthians 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Maybe there is a reason you don’t understand.

1 Corinthians 2:14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[CynicalBear]

>> Admit it you screwed up and professed heresy<<

Not unless you can show from scripture that Jesus human body existed from all eternity.