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To: metmom
If Jesus has said, *and on YOU, PETER, will I build my church* then I would have nothing to argue against, but He didn’t.

Well the the way I read it and those really smart men and women read it that is exactly what Jesus said.

As far as other *Protestant scholars* (and not ALL of them by any means), I don’t give a rip about who says what and what kind of credentials they have or how many letters before or after their name. If it doesn’t line up with a clear reading of Scripture or if it contradicts other Scripture, they’re wrong, plain and simple.

So is it that they disagree with you that makes them wrong or that they agree with what has been taught and understood for 1500 years that makes them wrong.

And I really hate to keep asking (actually I know that you are scared/ terrified to answer) Exactly how many hours of credit do you have at the Graduate/ Master level in New Testament Greek? and What grade did you earn in those classes?

CRICKETS CHIRPING

1,589 posted on 01/17/2012 5:09:16 PM PST by verga (We get what we tolerate and increase that which we reward)
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To: verga; ConservativeMind
Well the the way I read it and those really smart men and women read it that is exactly what Jesus said.

God has His opinion on human *smarts*....

1 Corinthians 1:18-31 18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”

20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.

22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. 30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

1 Corinthians 2:11-16 11 For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.

14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. 16 “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

There is no other rock than Jesus. Matthew 16:18 is misinterpreted if someone says Peter is that rock because it contradicts the clear statements by God about Himself in other Scripture and Scripture CANNOT contradict itself.

Isaiah 44:8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”

And this.....

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 and all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

Rock in verse 4 in both uses of it is *petra*.

Here is a link to the Greek...

http://biblos.com/1_corinthians/10-4.htm

And it doesn't take a Greek scholar to read that.

As a matter of fact, here are all 15 occurrences of *petra* in the NT.

http://concordances.org/greek/strongs_4073.htm

The following verses besides the 1 Corinthians one, reference Christ as being the rock - petra. NO mention of Peter at all......

Romans 9:33 ...as it is written, “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

And by Peter HIMSELF......

1 Peter 2:4- 8 4 As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, 5 you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For it stands in Scripture:

“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

7 So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense .” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

1,597 posted on 01/17/2012 7:37:50 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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