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WHY THE MAGISTERIUM MAKES SENSE TO ME
Ignitum Today ^ | February 2, 2012 | Colin Gormley

Posted on 02/03/2012 6:31:03 AM PST by NYer

I am married to a Korean national. I mention this not just because it is cool (and it is cool) but I’ve learned quite a few things about my Faith from being close to someone of a very different culture.

Because of my wife’s nationality I know quite a few Koreans by association. They come from education backgrounds that make your humble scribe feel quite inferior, or at least I’d feel that way if they weren’t so humble about it. And one of the core components of this education is learning the English language.

To me they do indeed speak English well. Some can even speak without the hint of a Korean accent. I know firsthand how difficult this is given my own extremely difficult time learning Korean.

(What does this have to do with the Magisterium? Please bear with me).

However despite their best efforts I have come to notice that no matter how fluent they were certain ways they would speak seemed…well..awkward. For example, almost to a man, when one of my wife’s friends say something like they were sick yesterday they would say “My condition was not good.” This was true regardless of how well any of them spoke English. I pointed it out to my wife and she noted that it was more or less a direct translation of the Korean expression for having been sick in the past. Despite the quality of their English, they were still speaking Korean using English words.

Another time my wife was telling me about her college days and describing a particular student and his relationship to the students in her freshman group. There literally is no English word for the particular position that this person held. It is something of a cross between a mentor, a Resident Assistant, and a full blown teacher. The attempt of my wife to explain this concept actually took a bit of time, and my above description is my best attempt to explain this position.

What I’m trying to say is that one’s culture has a powerful effect on one’s exposure to concepts as well as how one is going to express themselves. The ability to communicate with one another is heavily dependent on the concepts being discussed and the modes of expression that the communicants share. The greater the disparity in either, the more communication it takes to attempt to bridge the gap.

At one point this started me thinking about the Bible. The books are written a long time ago by a culture with wildly different concepts and modes of expression than we have in modern English. And the New Testament was a translation of one culture into another, from the Jewish culture and language (Aramaic) to the Common Greek. Not only are these cultures different from ours (the Jewish and the Greek) but both cultures have grown and developed over time.

Just to give one example is the notion of “brother” in Jewish culture. The original Aramaic that Jesus and His followers spoke had no concept of “cousin.” To describe the relationship of one cousin to another they would say something like, “He is the son of my father’s brother.” Given how wordy this is they would simplify it to “he is my brother.”

Now someone might object to this by pointing out that the Common Greek had a word for cousin and if the authors wanted to say “cousin” they would have. But to me this doesn’t fly for two reasons. First, that knowledge of a language does not bestow the modes of expression the language uses. As in my first example, the Korean expressing that they were sick still use the Korean wording of the concept rendered into English. Second, given that Jesus and his people used Aramaic to communicate, it is actually more accurate to have a word for word translation, complete with ambiguity, rather than to impose a meaning on the words by trying to translate the wording into something more friendly to the new language.

These things led me to realize that if the Body of Christ has to go at Faith with a Bible Alone approach we are doomed. The time, culture and language separations are a huge obstacle to getting at the actual meaning of the texts, with all the nuance and subtlety that comes with theological understanding and the development of those concepts. This is readily apparent with our Protestant brethren, who continue to split into numerous sects and sects within sects.

The Bible is a product of the times and cultures that produced it. Despite the fact that it is the inerrant Word of God it still uses human culture and language to communicate to us. And because of the limits of both human language and cultural concepts, the existence of the Magisterium and Sacred Tradition simply make sense.

Our Lord provided us with an authoritative body that can express the Truths of Revelation over time and cultures without error. A body that has the authority to interpret the Sacred Texts and present them to all cultures and times. A body that lives and breathes with the cultures in time but stands above them. That such a body, the Magisterim, exists is not only to my mind beneficial, but necessary for preserving the Word of God and revealing the Word to us using the concepts and modes of communication we use.

My exposure to a foreign culture as different as the Korean one only illustrates the need for the Sacred Tradition, and the need for the authority of the Magisterium to guarantee the transmission of that Tradition. There is more to the Truth of the Word than our cultures and languages can transmit. The Magisterium exists to teach us in the ways we communicate today, and will exist to teach the cultures of the future. Through the Magisterium we overcome the Tower of Babel now and in the future.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Religion & Culture; Theology
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To: johngrace
>> It is Through The Churches.<<

I think not. Not one of those said “through” the church. It says “to” the church. Trying to inject some organization between Jesus and His “called out assembly” has lead to grave error as exhibited by the RCC.

151 posted on 02/04/2012 5:59:27 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: papertyger; smvoice
But that's why I'm no longer an evangelical. They make many "biblical" promises that God doesn't seem to feel any obligation to keep.

And that is EXACTLY the problem of following men rather than having Scripture be the final authority.

152 posted on 02/04/2012 6:14:29 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: MarkBsnr; presently no screen name

That wouldn’t be anything like the Catholic church burning PEOPLE at the stake, would it?


153 posted on 02/04/2012 6:23:24 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Quix

I agree Quix and what is wonderful is that is spite of all this crap Our Lord Jesus Christ is still King of Kings and Lord of Lords!


154 posted on 02/04/2012 6:45:25 AM PST by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: johngrace

Many also look to the Westminister confession as representing their faith, like as even more choose to subscribe to the apostles creed, which evangelicals denoms overall do, and contend against those who deny its core truths.

But as you made a fallible decision to submit to the church of Rome (and disagree with the EOs and others to varying degrees), and interpret the nature and meaning of its declarations, so evangelicals do with past creeds, etc., without ascribing assured infallibility to the organs which gave them.

The church itself began in dissent from those who basically presumed their teaching required the same submission as that of Scripture, and authenticity based on formal decent, while the authenticity of Christ and the apostles was established upon conformity with Scripture and the attestation its provides being given to Truth.

And by which the born gain church of the living God continues to evidence it is such, esp by the gospel of grace which effects manifest regeneration in those who come to God as damned and destitute sinners, and thus trust the Lord Jesus to save them (not their merits or church) by His blood. To God be the glory.


155 posted on 02/04/2012 6:47:37 AM PST by daniel1212 (Trust in the Lord Jesus to save you as a contrite damned+morally destitute sinner + be forgiven+live)
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To: johngrace
If you look up every epistle/letter you will see it starts with a plural meaning Church or the Leader of the Church. Nowhere is it first address to the individual in the back row in it's title. It goes to THE Leader of the Church for the Church. Or from a leader to a Church. The Leader of a Church or The Churches. Because of Geography it is really a Group of Churches meaning One Church (umbrella) as a Whole. Notice the City Churches. The Epistles/Letters Are addressed to Cities.

The New Testament: The Epistle of Paul to the Romans

Who do you guys think you are talking to??? You couldn't possibly be more wrong...

The bible defines itself and tells anyone and everyone that the church is a called out assembly of believers...The church is the people in the pews...THEY are the Body of Christ...

Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

The people in the pews...The local congregation...

Yours is one of the worst perversions of scripture I have seen...

156 posted on 02/04/2012 7:30:10 AM PST by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: anglian
We must never go to our Lord except through Mary, using her intercession and good standing with him. We must never be without her when praying to Jesus.

Many Catholics on FR reference this guy for some reason...He's supposed to be a super saint I guess...

From what I've read of the fella, he doesn't have a relationship with Jesus...Simply put, he's not a Christian...

His relationship is with the queen of heaven...

157 posted on 02/04/2012 7:41:22 AM PST by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: Heart-Rest
Also, if you genuinely want to know the real, official teachings of the Catholic Church, and many of the extensive Scripture references that support those teachings, I highly recommend you read the "Catechism of the Catholic Church", which you can obtain here:

Many of us have read portions of your catechism...And when we have pointed out some of the outright perversions of the scriptures in your catechism, you tell us that not only do we need a Catholic clergy to interpret the scriptures, we need a Catholic clergy to interpret your catechism...

The limits you guys go to to cover your tracks is astounding...So why recommend we read your catechism???

158 posted on 02/04/2012 7:48:17 AM PST by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: metmom

Sorry, did you say that John Calvin burned Michael Servetus at the stake?


159 posted on 02/04/2012 7:52:48 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Heart-Rest
I honestly don't know anyone who sees Mary as a goddess -- Catholics simply ask Mary to pray to God for them, much like many people on Free Republic ask others here to pray for them also. That "worship" accusation that some people make is simply a false claim.

Drive through any rural town in Kansas, and you can immediately identify which homes are Catholic, because they have a Mary shrine/statue in their front yard. Yeah, no worship there.


160 posted on 02/04/2012 8:23:47 AM PST by crosshairs (Liberalism is to truth, what east is to west.)
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To: Heart-Rest; Quix; metmom; boatbums; caww; smvoice; presently no screen name; Lera; RnMomof7; ...

First of all, the "Nihil Obstat" and "Imprimatur" do NOT imply some kind of infallible stamp of approval on a work of art (writing) by the Catholic Church. Those things merely reflect the opinions of the persons whose names are attached to them concerning some specific work of art, not the infallible approval of Magisterium of the Church.

This is a matter of interpretation, and yours is to much a minimization and restriction of it. Some other RCS will object to anything without the stamps while in reality it pertains to more than art, as,

The Nihil obstat and Imprimatur are a declaration that a book or pamphlet is considered to be free from doctrinal or moral error.” (The Catholic Encyclopedia Revised and Updated (Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1987), p. 288)

The Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat are official declarations that a work is free from doctrinal or moral error. In a sense, this represents a negative approbation. It says the work contains no doctrinal or moral error. No implication is given, however, that the work has been endorsed by those who have granted the ecclesiastical approval or that they agree with the content, opinions or statements expressed in the work.” http://old.usccb.org/catechism//update/spring98.shtml

This latter part is interpreted by a Roman Catholic site,

While at first glance this statement might seem contradictory, an example might be that of a Roman Catholic work that offered parenting advice — the advice may not be morally wrong or contradict Roman Catholic doctrine, but it might not reflect the views on parenting of the censor or bishop.) Imprimaturs are not automatically transferrable to later versions of a work. Any new edition also requires a new imprimatur to be obtained. The imprimatur can be revoked if, upon further examination, any doctrinal or moral error is found to be contained in the work. http://aquietmoment.wordpress.com/2007/07/25/imprimi-potest-nihil-obstat-imprimatur/

I think the caveat allows Bishops to approve works that are judged to be faithful to church teaching even if the bishop may disagree with it, as they sometimes do. And while this represents a negative approbation, that the work contains no doctrinal or moral error, it also can also be a positive affirmation to some degree when the work makes interpretive doctrinal statements based on what Rome has taught.

It also means that despite the assurance these stamps are supposed to provide, due to the fallible nature of the bishops then “works that are free from doctrinal or moral error and have received ecclesiastical approval from an individual diocesan bishop will not necessarily be found to be in conformity with the Catechism.”- http://old.usccb.org/catechism//update/spring98.shtml

And these stamps have quite a history, “To prevent the incursion of opinions that conflict with the church's teaching, the Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office, created in 1542, has the authority to ban books which it adjudges to be dangerous to the faith and morals of the faithful. The catalog of such books is called the ‘Index of Prohibited Books’ and Roman Catholics are prohibited from reading any book on the Index without permission.

In addition, the members of the church may not read or even sell any book that is dangerous to faith and morals, even if it is not on the Index. Wherever faith and morals are involved, the church claims the right of censorship over books. No Roman Catholic may publish a book dealing with doctrinal or moral matters without having it censored. The Imprimatur which appears at the beginning or the end of a Roman Catholic book is the official notice that the book has been censored and that permission for its publication has been duly granted. It does not mean that the church assumes responsibility for every statement of fact and opinion in the book, but only that the book does not contain anything inimical to the faith and practice of the church. The Index prohibits, the Imprimatur protects. (Jaraslov Pelikan, historical scholar, later Orthodox layman “The Riddle of Roman Catholicism “(1959); http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2006/08/imprimatur-watch-what-youre-reading-my.html)

The huge change that led to the Index Librorum Prohibitorum was the change in the way books were being produced. As the manufacturing of books increased the production of books, the Church could no longer condemn each individual book. “The deluge of printed works that swept across the Continent from Germany, Switzerland, England and the Netherlands rendered explicit condemnation of each forbidden book quite impractical” (Burke 1952, p. 6). To try and solve the new problem the Church came up with new methods to suppress heretical books. “In 1467 Innocent VIII decreed that all books must be submitted to the local Church authorities for examination and permission before being issued for general reading… The license to publish was to be printed in each book… A similar decree was issued by Leo X at the Fifth Lateran Council on May 4, 1515, and addressed to the entire world. It is the first general decree of supervisory censorship that was universally accepted” (Burke 1952 p. 6-7). Soon after this the Index was created. http://capping.slis.ualberta.ca/cap07/CeraSchachter/precursors.html

In any case, your own Catechism places significant weight on such approval:

The Church, given teaching authority by Christ and as the conduit for fullness of Truth on this earth, has the obligation to preserve Her sheep from deviations from the Truth and to to guarantee them the “objective possibility of professing the true faith without error” (Catechism, No. 890). Because of this, the Bishops will look at books published by Catholics on Catholic matters in their dioceses, giving them their “okay” if nothing therein is found to be contrary to the Faith (relevant Canon Law: “Title IV: The Means of Social Communication,” 822-832)

Cannot law also states, “Books of the sacred scriptures cannot be published unless the Apostolic See or the conference of bishops has approved them. For the publication of their translations into the vernacular, it is also required that they be approved by the same authority and provided with necessary and sufficient annotations.” 9 825 §1) — http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2Q.HTM

Canon 827 indicates that "catechisms and other writings dealing with catechetical formation or their translations need the approval of the local ordinary for their publication" (Code of Canon Law, Washington, DC: Canon Law Society of America, 1983, 827 #1).
The fact that canon law requires that this and other certain categories of writings must receive the bishop’s authorization to be published does not allow this to be relegated to be a rubber stamp, or for it to often approve works which are in error, without sowing confusion and impugning on apologetical claims of perspicuity and consistency.

Also, if you genuinely want to know the real, official teachings of the Catholic Church, and many of the extensive Scripture references that support those teachings,

Are you saying the Catechism is an infallible document, that cannot err? And or that it is infallibly interpreting the (relative cursory) Scripture references it provides, and that these teachings do not require some interpretation?

And as you look to infallible pronouncements, can you tell us how many there are for sure, or is this a matter of interpretation, and which can also apply to some extent to their meaning?

Have you ever debated a sedevacantist?

How many Bible verses have been infallibly interpreted?

Please answer these yourself, while in regards to “the many glaring misconceptions you have about the Church that Jesus Christ founded” that Roman Catholics often charge their opponents with having (not without some warrant), i find RCs themselves can vary somewhat in their interpretation of what Rome officially teaching, and even on what is “official” teaching.

161 posted on 02/04/2012 8:25:01 AM PST by daniel1212 (Trust in the Lord Jesus to save you as a contrite damned+morally destitute sinner + be forgiven+live)
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To: Heart-Rest; Monkey Face; RIghtwardHo; pieces of time; Warthog-2; Tzar; word_warrior_bob; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.


162 posted on 02/04/2012 8:31:21 AM PST by narses
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To: johngrace

This again is interpretation. The CE affirms that the Bull teaches submission to the Pope as being required in order to attain salvation, which Lumen Gentium”reformulated” and which RCs have different interpretations of.

Nor does your providence of historical context refute my contextual statement on “the ethos of Rome during times when it wielded its unScriptural sword of men against theological adversaries,” as the fact is that while you can fault our interpretation of Rome’s desire, Rome did advocate torture, etc. or killing of theological opponents. And we have good reason to assume it would still do so if it had not lost its physical sword, and which some of your Traditional RCs advocate it should use.

Liberal Muslims also argue that the sanction and example of physical harm to enemies by Muhammad was contextual, but the fact remains he sanctioned it and they have good ground for physical Jihad.


163 posted on 02/04/2012 8:53:17 AM PST by daniel1212 (Trust in the Lord Jesus to save you as a contrite damned+morally destitute sinner + be forgiven+live)
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To: MarkBsnr

Did he?


164 posted on 02/04/2012 9:14:49 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: johngrace

I’m glad you were patient enough to let this post; it’s a good one. A half-hour! I never could have waited that long. haha

After 5 min, I probably would have copied the post to a Word document or something (to save it) then X’ed out the browser window that was hanging, then reposted it with a new window.

Anyway, thanks for hanging in to post it! Unfortunately, I think the salient point you made (about the de Montfort quote being part of a larger devotional to Mary) is probably lost on “deaf” ears, at least it appears to be by the responses. Hopefully some lurker benefited from that though.


165 posted on 02/04/2012 9:35:09 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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To: crosshairs

What a beautiful shrine to Our Lady! Thanks for posting that!

Such shrines are useful for quiet meditation, here in the glorious nature Our Lord creates. They are useful for meditation about the Mystery of the Incarnation, which is precisely how they ultimately glorify God, all the while giving the honor Mary is due. (”All generations shall call me blessed”).

At least this is what I get out of such shrines. I don’t see how this is elevating Mary over God. Again, speaking for myself, when I meditate in front of such shrines, I know for a fact I am not “worshipping” the statue or even Mary, as my thoughts in such circumstances are always, ultimately, about Jesus.

Anymore, I laugh at (yes, at, not “with”) anyone who claims differently, as if they can read my heart and/or mind.


166 posted on 02/04/2012 9:47:33 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

More than 2/3 and ALL the doctrinal/vital parts.

The 4 Gospels, and the Epistles of Paul, according to ALL available evidence have always been accepted by Christians since the 1st Century. 2nd & 3rd John, 2nd Peter, (very minor books) Hebrews (with its anonymous authorship) and Revelation (the Apocalypse of John) and a few other less important books, were doubted and debated about—but even these were widely accepted, from the earliest days. ALL of the key doctrines of Christianity can be proven from ONLY the books that were always accepted.

It’s an incredible lie that the Church was without the Bible until AD 420. Formal recognition of something...and its existence and use, are two different things.

Roman Popes didn’t even rise into predominance until after the 400s anyway....and Rome was one of only 5 Provinces (the other four stayed with the Eastern Orthodox, when Rome did a schism from them in AD 1054).

The claim that the Roman Catholic church wrote the Bible is an ignorant lie on its face.


167 posted on 02/04/2012 9:53:35 AM PST by AnalogReigns (because REALITY is never digital...)
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To: Quix

That argument sounded familiar, and so i searched and found that i had addressed it a couple years ago, (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2404901/posts?page=93#93), the answer basically being that Lk. 2:26 does not refer to oral revelation being passed down thru eons of time,, but to revelation which was subsequently written. And which is the norm, as i know of no place in Scripture where “the word of God/the Lord refers to revelation which was not subsequently written.
http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Bible/2Tim_3.html#Partial

While it is Scripture which attests that the Word of God can refer to information or revelation beyond what it written, (2Cor. 12:4; Rv. 10:4; Jn. 21:25) yet Scripture is the assured word of God, being wholly inspired, and is the supreme judge of all, while oral tradition by nature is supremely subject to unverifiable corruption, and is used by a self-proclaimed assuredly infallible esoteric office of men to channel this amorphous revelation into doctrine. And in which they disagree with another body which likewise justify themselves as being the OTC based on Tradition, and their infallible interpretation.

And while attacking evangelicals for their lack of assured infallibility, RCs themselves make a fallible decision to trust in their infallibly proclaimed assuredly infallible magisterium, and engage in fallible interpretation of the nature of multitudes of pronouncements, and to some degree their meaning, in addition to other teachings and the Bible.


168 posted on 02/04/2012 9:58:42 AM PST by daniel1212 (Trust in the Lord Jesus to save you as a contrite damned+morally destitute sinner + be forgiven+live)
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To: CommerceComet
These [the Biblical historical record of Peter] hardly fill one with confidence that Peter was the appointed Vicar of Christ. He didn't act like he knew it or that his contemporary Church leaders did either.

This is why serious, unguided, bible reading and study has always proven fatal to Roman Catholic authority.

And why, sooner or later, the Roman church ALWAYS discourages bible reading and study. The contrast between New Testament Christianity and what Rome calls Christianity...is just too great, for the honest reader.

169 posted on 02/04/2012 10:02:30 AM PST by AnalogReigns (because REALITY is never digital...)
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To: AnalogReigns

“And why, sooner or later, the Roman church ALWAYS discourages bible reading and study. The contrast between New Testament Christianity and what Rome calls Christianity...is just too great, for the honest reader.”

What a laugh. Actually there is an indulgence connected with reading the Bible. So I think that it is possible that you are completely wrong.


170 posted on 02/04/2012 10:06:39 AM PST by Not gonna take it anymore (If Obama were twice as smart as he is, he would be a wit)
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To: Quix
Aha - finally got time to sit and read the post you asked about!

Lot of info, and a lot well above my paygrade, but I will happily try. Bear in mind I am no priest, not theoligan and this is my personal truth, not Gospel (sorry, could not resist that!)

Mary deserves our respect and love as the bearer of our Lord made flesh. More because we know she testified both before and after the crucifixion. This was a time when women were possessions, remember. Not people. The lady had guts and grace.

Now, as for individual points:

Mary is crowned Queen of heaven and earth, dispenser of all graces . . . .

Jesus is often referred to as King of Kings. Does that not make his mother a queen? It certainly did in the 5th century.

4 - She became Queen of Purgatory, where she exercises her power as mediatrix in behalf of these suffering souls. . 5 - She became Queen of us sinners, to assist us through the dangers of this life and to help us in difficulties. .

All souls suffer. She is there to help us, that is all. You don't waste the general's time when you have a stomach ache, you talk to your seargent. Catholics are very hierarchical. One of the reasons I am happy here.

6 - She became the ruler of hell, that trembles at her slightest gaze and is defeated by her power. .

This one puzzles me badly. Provisionally, I'd say hell fears and flees from purity. Mary is most definitely pure, we are told that. Odd way of putting it though. This one I need to pray upon further.

"Mary is the tree of life to those who grasp her, and he is happy who hold her fast." --Prov. 3:18 .

This one, on the other hand, is easy. Tree was used extensively as a metaphor in scripture. Think of "by their fruits you shall know them" for one. Her fruit was our Savior - who is the way, the truth and the life.

1 - "Hail Mary, beloved daughter of the Father, Mother of the Divine Son, Spouse of the Holy Spirit, complement of the most august Trinity!" .

It simply states she was a daughter of God (as we all are - or sons of course!), the mother of our savior who was impregnated by the Holy Spirit. All straight from the gospels. To be slightly crude, back then, you got a girl pregnant you were considered wed. End of story. Something maybe we should go back to. Side note - please don't ask me about the Holy Trinity, that makes my brain hurt!

9 - God loved Mary so much that He gave her the keys to His heart. 'No one can go to God without Mary drawing him.'

First part, well, he did choose her of all his chosen people to bear our saviour. Second part - I do not know, but suspect it is the literal truth. Without Mary, no Jesus. Without Jesus, no salvation.

5 - "She desired the safety of everyone, went in search of it, and obtained it; it was also through her that this salvation was wrought."

Again. Salvation is from God through his spirit made flesh. You have to grow flesh somewhere - a woman is usually used. (and that comment will earn me a penance for sure!)

4 - "By becoming Mother of God, Mary belongs to the order of hypostatic union; hence she participates IN the infinite sanctity of God."

We all do. Anyone who accepts the Holy Spirit becomes one with God. She just happened to be head of the queue.

The other points, I either do not have any idea or really need to talk them over with the priest first. Probably racked up enough penance to keep me busy all week as it is!

Posted a bit in the other thread where we were talking that you may find interesting too: Thread is http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2841259/posts?page=270#270

As always, good talking to you!

171 posted on 02/04/2012 10:07:02 AM PST by EnglishCon
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To: daniel1212; NYer; Salvation
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

!ABSOLUTELY INDEED!

Daniel, et al,

What are y'all's predictions on whether the Pope will order RC officials in the USA to comply with Obama's plan to insert the Mark of the Beast chip implant into all Americans by the end of 2012? LUB,

God's best to all who Seek Him.

!MARANATHA!

BE SURE you are ready to meet The Lord, folks . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXIrfjLsmaU


172 posted on 02/04/2012 10:23:56 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: EnglishCon

Thanks for giving it your best.

I understand your ‘reasoning,’ though it doesn’t track with my notion of words and meanings.

And, I’m saddened to see you seemingly more or less excuse such outrageous assertions.

Sigh.

I appreciate the dialogues with you, too.


173 posted on 02/04/2012 10:29:27 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

I enjoyed it very much! It took a lot of thought even to answer those few - stretching the brain is good!

Some of them - the ones I could not answer - troubled me greatly. The queen of hell one was a literal slap in the face, though I made a very weak stab at it.

The problem is we have The Word. No one said it would be easy to understand. Some is totally easy, some is so frustrating to read that is might as well be in Martian. And since we are all different, I might have no problem with something you need to pray long over, and you might sail through a section that is an impenetratable thicket of thorns to me.

Discussion and study helps, but not always.

Figure that is where faith, prayer and listening to God come in, and why I will never insult someone who has taken a different path to Truth (teasing is a different story!). God talks to me, sure, but he doesn’t tend to gossip about what he has told others.

Bless you and yours!


174 posted on 02/04/2012 11:04:11 AM PST by EnglishCon
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To: EnglishCon

Well put.

Likewise.

God’s best to you and those you love.


175 posted on 02/04/2012 11:11:14 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: cloudmountain

Thank you cloud - I must reiterate - Jesus’ death on the cross is all you need - no bible - the works are perfect. The works alone do it- and we must emulate the works!! (sorry - had to bring that in)

Men have short and fallen memories (Thanks Eve) so the bible had to be written and the Holy Spirit knew this.

PS I love history, by the way - anything written before 1960 Hillaire Belloc here we come.


176 posted on 02/04/2012 11:20:15 AM PST by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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To: Not gonna take it anymore

Dear Not gonna Take it anymore ..

Your post made me cry and I do not cry easily.


177 posted on 02/04/2012 11:23:03 AM PST by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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To: metmom
Did he?

Sure. However, he was predestined to do it. The s'mores were pretty good, I hear.


178 posted on 02/04/2012 1:56:02 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr

How old are you anyway?


179 posted on 02/04/2012 2:32:12 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: crosshairs
Wow CommerceComet, should be getting a 10,000 copy/paste heading our way. Hoping that a flood of words will give the response legitimacy.

I did swing a stick at a hornet's nest, didn't I?

I normally spend my time contending with the non-Nicene crowd (the Mormons) rather than with Nicene-believing brothers. While I believe that Roman Catholics have erroneous beliefs, at least they worship the true triune God. However, sometimes, I let myself get too annoyed by the "Mother Church" dogmatists.

180 posted on 02/04/2012 4:07:11 PM PST by CommerceComet (If Mitt can leave the GOP to protest Reagan, why can't I do the same in protest of Romney?)
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To: papertyger
Hardly. The entire gathering was in turmoil UNTIL Peter stood up and gave the official reasoning... at which time James as the local Bishop gave his ruling.

Even if I agreed with this (and I don't), you still have a lot of other Biblical examples which indicate that neither Peter nor the other early Church leaders recognized Peter's supposed preeminence.

181 posted on 02/04/2012 4:12:26 PM PST by CommerceComet (If Mitt can leave the GOP to protest Reagan, why can't I do the same in protest of Romney?)
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To: stonehouse01
Hilaire Belloc: I had to look up who she was. How did she get into your life? Just curious.
*All men have an instinct for conflict: at least, all healthy men.
*An institute run with such knavish imbecility that if it were not the work of God it would not last a fortnight.
*Any subject can be made interesting, and therefore any subject can be made boring.
*Be content to remember that those who can make omelettes properly can do nothing else.
*Child! Do not throw this book about; refrain from the unholy pleasure of cutting all the pictures out.
*Every major question in history is a religious question. It has more effect in molding life than nationalism or a common language.

Yes, Jesus' death is all I need, AND a healthy dose of ME saying YES to Him.

182 posted on 02/04/2012 4:25:15 PM PST by cloudmountain
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To: papertyger
So Mary, who was in the kingdom was greater.

So Mary wasn't born of woman? Are you suggesting that John the Baptist wasn't of the kingdom?

What’s your problem?

I was simply suggesting to someone that it appears that the Bible contradicts the statement that Mary was "clearly the most saintly." While Mary is to be greatly respected, a lot of mythology has developed about Mary that is just that, mythology.

183 posted on 02/04/2012 4:30:54 PM PST by CommerceComet (If Mitt can leave the GOP to protest Reagan, why can't I do the same in protest of Romney?)
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To: AnalogReigns
This is why serious, unguided, bible reading and study has always proven fatal to Roman Catholic authority.

It also explains the importance of tradition - it is used to explain away or nullify troublesome Bible verses.

184 posted on 02/04/2012 5:12:23 PM PST by CommerceComet (If Mitt can leave the GOP to protest Reagan, why can't I do the same in protest of Romney?)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

All this aside...

I am so DAMN MAD about what Obama is doing to you Catholics with this HHS issue I think my head could explode.

We may have serious theological differences, but I stand with you against this monstrous evil.


185 posted on 02/04/2012 5:24:15 PM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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To: metmom
How old are you anyway?

Old enough to know better and still too young to care.


186 posted on 02/04/2012 6:14:24 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Quix; metmom; boatbums; caww; smvoice; presently no screen name; Lera


"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;" (Philippians 2:10)

"And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day." (Isaiah 2:17)

"Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God. {6} And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another." (1 Corinthians 4:5-6)

"And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon." (Revelation 5:4)

"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; {10} And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. {11} And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; {12} Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing." (Revelation 5:9-12)

God is a God of balance, and while Rome warns of those who take the Scriptures too literally, and against private interpretation, and “unrestrained spirits,” and even say disparaging things about Paul, i have never seen a rebuke of the supererogatory of adulation of Mary by her popes and subjects in elevating her above that which is written (such as seen below) ,but which is part of the unScriptural PTDS, and psychological appeal of religion after the flesh.

In the the Catholic quest to deify Mary,

as Christ was sinless, so Mary is said to be:

and as the Lord remained a virgin, so Mary;

and as the Lord was raised from the dead and ascended into Heaven, so also Mary;

and as the Father made Christ Lord over all things, so Mary is enthroned (all other believers have to wait for their crowns) and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, and is said to have (showing great restraint) almost unlimited power;

and as the Lord called souls to come to Him for salvation, so (in misappropriation of the words of Scripture) it is said of Mary, “He that shall find me shall find life, and shall have salvation from the Lord, being coredemptorist and “the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race.,”(Irenaeus of Lyons, Adversus haereses 3:22) with Mary shedding her blood through Christ, the logic behind which can lead back to Eve;

and as the Lord ever liveth to save to the uttermost those who trust in Him, so Mary is set forth as unceasing intercessor between Christ and man (as if this were necessary or could be advantageous, in the light of the immediate access into the holy of holies that believers have, and the Lord's superior sufficiency as the only Heavenly intercessor between God and man);

and as all grace comes to be Father through the Son, so it is said of Mary that she is dispenser of all grace;

Etc.

I will add that Mary was a holy women and was blessed due to that but most of all for having been chosen to be the vessel who carried the incarnate Son of God. But this did not require sinlessness any more than it did for the writers of holy Writ to be as vessels through whom the Lord's Divine pure words came.

And in addition, one can have innocence as Adam and Even before the Fall, but not proven virtue, and one can be holy in living a simple life, but i believe the souls of greatest righteousness were those who suffered the greatest temptation to recant their faith but did not and also proactively contended for righteousness according to their calling. As pious as Mary was, and without taking anything away from her commitment in remaining a believer, and her suffering in seeing her Son treated as He was, i do not see Scripture manifesting her as the women of the greatest virtue, but others can disagree. It is the wholesale elevation of her or any man above that which is written. (1Cor. 4:6) to virtually a demigod/godess stature that i object to.

The late Walter Martin noted,

I have in my library hundreds of pamphlets, manuscripts and books all published with the official imprimatur of the Roman Catholic Church. In every one of them, language which is applied to God alone in Scripture is applied to the Virgin Mary. She is worshipped: she is given almost every title of Christ. Thus, they are subtly but systematically raising her to a place of equality with our Lord.... Worship, prayers, shrines, and even altars in churches have been consecrated to her around the earth. The healing grottoes are seldom dedicated to Jesus of Nazareth, but to "Our Lady of Lourdes," "Our Lady St. Anne de Beaupre," "Our Lady of Fatima," etc. The statues which are seen in Roman Catholic homes are invariably of Mary. The largest niches in Roman Catholic churches are occupied by images of Mary. The preponderance of prayers are to Mary, and the "Hail, Mary" is repeated in the Rosary continually. (Walter Martin, The Roman Catholic Church in History (Livingston, NJ: Christian Research Institute, Inc., 1960), p.54)

To this it is said,

We must never adore her; that is for God alone. But otherwise we cannot honor her to excess, because it is not possible to overestimate the privileges God gave her in making her His own Mother. “What the church teaches,” by Monsignor J.D. Conway/ Imprimatur of Ralph L. Hayes,, New York; Harper and Brothers; 1962 (He also states, “It seems manifest that Christians simply adapted the art of pagan Rome to their religious needs:” p. 218)

Alex responded this in a post 2,078 long ago and and it is difficult to distinguish between latria, dulia and hyperdulia as such is of the heart. As as one commentator stated,

Although (technically) Mary is not to be worshipped in the same sense that God is worshipped, she is to be granted devotion and worship in a lesser sense. And if the fine distinctions made by Catholic theologians "are usually not reflected in the practice of the faithful," idolatry would seem to be a distinct possibility in the lives of the faithful. Thus, "By the sixteenth century, as evidenced by the spiritual struggles of the Reformers, the image of Mary had largely eclipsed the centrality of Jesus Christ in the life of believers." (Robert C. Broderick, ed., The Catholic Encyclopedia, revised and updated; NY: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1987pp.32,33),

There is a Biblical basis for distinguishing forms. While bowing down normally denotes worship of God, and hence bowing down to idols is forbidden, there are a few times when it occurs toward man in a sanctioned way which denotes respect, or obeisance and submission due to one's position, such as Abraham (Gn. 23:12) and toward Jacob and Joseph, (Gn. 27:29; 37:10; 42:6; 43:28) and to worship (proskuneō, trans. worship elsewhere in KJV) before faithful Christians because of Jesus love for them. (Rev 3:9)

However, as said, rather than Mary being remembered and honored as a holy women who was blessed above women because of whom she was privileged to mother, she is lauded as being intrinsically superior to every women that lived, with an adulation that befits Christ not man, and is made like Him is many ways beyond what Scripture reveals, with Divine functions and privileges being ascribed to her.

The Catholic Encyclopedia explains below (emphasis mine) the development Marian devotion, and that one aspect seen among a couple church fathers was the idea the martyrs, that since by their death they,

could obtain graces and blessings for others, naturally and immediately led to their direct invocation.

A further reinforcement, of the same idea, was derived from the cult of the angels, which, while pre-Christian in its origin, was heartily embraced by the faithful of the sub-Apostolic age. It seems to have been only as a sequel of some such development that men turned to implore the intercession of the Blessed Virgin. This at least is the common opinion among scholars, though it would perhaps be dangerous to speak too positively. Evidence regarding the popular practice of the early centuries is almost entirely lacking, and while on the one hand the faith of Christians no doubt took shape from above downwards (i.e. the Apostles and teachers of the Church delivered a message which the laity accepted from them with all docility)” — http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15459a.htm

Thus the substantiation for what came to beyond what is written is asserted to surely have (nebulous oral) tradition as its source, thus effectively Rome holds to an open canon, as does Mormonism, while its supreme authority is its self-proclaimed assuredly infallible magisterium, which is the foundational issue, as by it all things are established. Thus regarding those who disagree that Mary was preserved sinless, the Pope presumes to pronounce,

Hence, if anyone shall dare which God forbid to think otherwise than has been defined by us, let him know and understand that he is condemned by his own judgment, that he has suffered shipwreck in the faith, that he has separated from the unity of the Church and that furthermore by his own action he incurs the penalties established by Law if he should dare to express in words or writing or by any other outward means the error he thinks in his heart.” (Ineffabilis Deus, Pope Pius IX on December 8, 1854)

Of course, not all the extremes of Marian devotion are officially sanctioned by the church, wisely so, but many are (what is written in encyclicals is generally understood to be infallible, and some hold all are)m with sanction of the rest being implicit:

The foundation of all Our confidence, as you know well, Venerable Brethren, is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. For, God has committed to Mary the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will, that we obtain everything through Mary.” Pope Pius IX, in Ubi Primum (On the Immaculate Conception), Encyclical promulgated on February 2, 1849, #5.
The power thus put into her (Mary’s) hands is all but unlimited. How unerringly right, then, are Christian souls when they turn to Mary for help...How rightly, too, has every nation and every liturgy without exception acclaimed her great renown, which has grown greater with the voice of each succeeding century. Among her many other titles we find her hailed as ‘our Lady, our Mediatrix,’ (St. Bernard, Serm.II in Adv. 4) ‘the Reparatrix of the whole world,’ (St. Tharasius, Orat. in Praesentatione) ‘the Dispenser of all heavenly gifts.’ (On Off. Graec., 8 Dec.).” Pope Leo XIII, in Adiutricem (On the Rosary), Encyclical promulgated on September 5, 1895, #8.
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13adiut.htm

O Virgin most holy, none abounds in the knowledge of God except through thee; none, O Mother of God, attains salvation except through thee; none receives a gift from the throne of mercy except through thee.’” Pope Leo XIII, in Adiutricem (On the Rosary), Encyclical promulgated on September 5, 1895, #9. http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13adiut.htm

With equal truth may it be also affirmed that, by the will of God, Mary is the intermediary through whom is distributed unto us this immense treasure of mercies gathered by God, for mercy and truth were created by Jesus Christ. Thus as no man goeth to the Father but by the Son, so no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother....Mary is this glorious intermediary...” Pope Leo XIII, in Octobri Mense (On the Rosary), Encyclical promulgated on September 22, 1891, # 4. http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13ro1.htm

Thus is confirmed that law of merciful meditation of which We have spoken, and which St. Bernardine of Siena thus expresses: ‘Every grace granted to man has three degrees in order; for by God it is communicated to Christ, from Christ it passes to the Virgin, and from the Virgin it descends to us.’”Pope Leo XIII, in Iucunda Semper Expectatione (On the Rosary), Encyclical promulgated on September 8, 1894, #5. http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13ro5.htm

All gifts which the Author of all good (God) has deigned to communicate to the unhappy posterity of Adam, are, according to the loving resolve of His Divine Providence, dispensed by the hands of the Most Holy Virgin.” Pope Benedict XV (AAS 9, 1917, 266) (quoted in “About Our Lady, our Blessed Mother”, by Our Lady’s Warriors).
http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/abtmary.htm

.When therefore we read in the writings of Saint Bernard, Saint Bernardine, Saint Bonaventure, and others that all in heaven and on earth, even God himself, is subject to the Blessed Virgin, they mean that the authority which God was pleased to give her is so great that she seems to have the same power as God. Her prayers and requests are so powerful with him that he accepts them as commands in the sense that he never resists his dear mother’s prayer because it is always humble and conformed to his will.... St. Louis de Montfort, in Treatise on True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin, #27, 246. http://www.ewtn.com/library/Montfort/TRUEDEVO.HTM

In conclusion: we may say that, in virtue of the divine salvific counsels ordaining a most perfect redemption, our Lady as Coredemptrix is included with Christ, the One Mediator.Rev. Fr. Peter Damian M. Fehlner, F.F.I., professor of Catholic Theology, in Immaculata Mediatrix — Toward a Dogmatic Definition of the Coredemption.
http://www.voxpopuli.org/book_2_10.php

Pope Pius XII explains in an address on the Queenship of Mary, ‘when the glorious Virgin Mary entered triumphantly into heaven and was elevated above the choirs of angels to the throne of the Most Holy Trinity.’ And then Christ ‘placed a triple crown of glory on her head, presented her to the heavenly court, seated her at his right hand and pronounced her Queen of the Universe.’...Opus Sanctorum Angelorum, Formation Letter, “Mary - ‘Regina Angelorum’”, April, 2000.
http://www.opusangelorum.org/Formation/Maryregina.html

I know not whether God has yet pardoned me. I may again lose Him. But thou canst obtain for me all; and from thee I hope for every good, for forgiveness, perseverance, and heaven. — Visit to the Blessed Virgin Mary — http://www.stalphonsusbalt.org/stavisits.htm

Mary's role as its intercessor was spelled out in the 12th century by theologians, such as Eadmer, (c. 1124) and St. Peter Damian, and was popularized in collections of her miracles. Mary placates the judge. According to Eadmer (A.D. 1060–1124), an English monk and student of Anselm, “sometimes salvation is quicker if we remember Mary's name then if we invoked the name of the Lord Jesus...[who] does not at once, answer anyone who invokes him, but only does so after just judgment. But if the name of his mother Mary is invoked, her merits intercede so that he is answered even if the merits of him who invoked her do not deserve it.”

In the word says Anselm, through her “the elements are renewed, the netherworld is healed, the demons are trodden underfoot, men are saved and angels are restored.” in the margins out, Smithfield decretals, began again, for over a hundred folios, Mary asserts her power over devils-and sometimes also over Jews. Andrew Taylor, “Three medieval manuscripts and their readers,” University of Pennsylvania press; page 173

St. Maximillian Kolbe, 1894 – 14 August 1941 (canonized by Pope John Paul II):

"The third Person of the Blessed Trinity never took flesh; still, our human word 'spouse' is far too weak to express the reality of the relationship between the Immaculata and the Holy Spirit. We can affirm that she is, in a certain sense, the 'incarnation' of the Holy Spirit [not of the same order as that of the hypostatic union]." (133) "The union between the Immaculata and the Holy Spirit is so inexpressible, yet so perfect, that the Holy Spirit acts only by the Most Blessed Virgin, his Spouse. This is why she is the mediatrix of all graces given by the Holy Spirit. And since every grace is a gift of God the Father through the Son and by the Holy Spirit, it follows that there is no grace which Mary cannot dispose of as her own, which is not given to her for this purpose." Manteau-Bonamy, Immaculate Conception, 91; F.X. Durrwell, The Holy Spirit of God (Cincinnati: Servant Books, 2006), 183-185.

Ten Series of Meditations of the Mysteries of the Rosary, by Ferraro. Richard Cardinal Cushing, Imprimatur

She became the ruler of hell, that trembles at her slightest gaze and is defeated by her power.” P32

To her was granted grace greater than that conferred upon all others, 'that she might vanquish sin in every respect.” P45

Mary is the dawn of God because, just as the dawn marks the end of darkness and the beginning of day, so Mary indicates the end of vices and the beginning of virtue." P46

"As Noah's Ark saved all the animals that entered it, so Mary saves all the souls that entrust themselves to her care." P47

God loved Mary so much that He gave her the keys to His heart. 'No one can go to God without Mary drawing him.'

"If she were not so holy as she is, how could God appoint her to be the ladder of Paradise, the advocate of the world, meatrix between HIm and us?" P50

All gifts which the Author of all good (God) has deigned to communicate to the unhappy posterity of Adam, are, according to the loving resolve of His Divine Providence, dispensed by the hands of the Most Holy Virgin.” Pope Benedict XV (AAS 9, 1917, 266) (quoted in “About Our Lady, our Blessed Mother”, by Our Lady’s Warriors). http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/abtmary.htm

Alphabetical list of appellations magnifying Mary (from Roman Catholic “Tom's Domain:” http://tomsdomain.com/rosary/titles.htm)

101. Mary the Blessed Virgin

102. Mary, Blessed Virgin

103. Mary, Help of Christians

104. Mary, Mother of God

105. Mary, Queen of Africa

106. Mary, Queen of Angels

107. Mary, Queen of Peace

108. Mary, Star of the Sea

109. Mater Dei

110. Mediatrix

111. Mediatrix and Conciliatrix

112. Mediatrix of All Graces

113. Mediatrix of Salvation

114. Mediatrix of the Mediator

115. Minister of Life

116. More Beautiful Than Beauty

117. More Glorious Than Paradise

118. More Gracious Than Grace

119. More Holy Than the Cherubim, the Seraphim, and the Entire Angelic Hosts

120. Most Venerable

121. Mother Most Admirable

122. Mother Most Amiable

123. Mother Most Chaste

124. Mother Most Pure

125. Mother Inviolate

126. Mother of Christians

127. Mother of Christ's Members

128. Mother of God

129. Mother of Good Counsel

130. Mother of Jesus Christ

131. Mother of Men

132. Mother of Our Creator

133. Mother of Our Head

134. Mother of Our Savior

135. Mother of the Mystical Body

136. Mother of Wisdom

137. Mother Undefiled

138. My Body's Healing

139. My Soul's Saving

140. Nativity of the Blessed Virgin

141. Nature's Re-Creation

142. Nature's Restoration

143. Neck of the Mystical Body

144. Never Fading Wood

145. New Eve

146. Notre Dame Cathedral of Paris

147. Notre Dame of Chartres

148. Notre Dame of Easton

149. Nourisher of God and Man

150. Olive Tree of the Father's Compassion

151. Only Bridge of God to Men

152. Our Immaculate Queen

153. Our Lady, Gate of Heaven

154. Our Lady, Help of Christians

155. Our Lady, Mother of the Church

156. Our Lady, Queen of All Saints

157. Our Lady, Queen of the Apostles

158. Our Lady in America

159. Our Lady Mediatrix of All Grace

160. Our Lady of Africa

161. Our Lady of Altotting

162. Our Lady of Arabia

163. Our Lady of Bandel

164. Our Lady of Bandra

165. Our Lady of Banneux

166. Our Lady of Baeuraing

167. Our Lady of Begoña

168. Our Lady of Bethlehem

169. Our Lady of Calvary

170. Our Lady of Charity

171. Our Lady of Consolation

172. Our Lady of Copacabana

173. Our Lady of Coromoto

174. Our Lady of Czestochowa

175. Our Lady of Europe

176. Our Lady of Fatima

177. Our Lady of Good Counsel

178. Our Lady of Good Help

179. Our Lady of Grace

180. Our Lady of Guadalupe

181. Our Lady of Guadalupe of Estramadura

182. Our Lady of High Grace

183. Our Lady of Hungary

184. Our Lady of Japan

185. Our Lady of Kevelaer

186. Our Lady of Knock

187. Our Lady of La Leche

188. Our Lady of La Vang

189. Our Lady of Las Vegas

190. Our Lady of LaSallette

191. Our Lady of Lebanon

192. Our Lady of Limerick

193. Our Lady of Loreto

194. Our Lady of Lourdes

195. Our Lady of Lujan

196. Our Lady of Madhu

197. Our Lady of Mariazell

198. Our Lady of Mercy

199. Our Lady of Montserrat

200. Our Lady of Mount Carmel

201. Our Lady of Mount Carmel at Aylesford

202. Our Lady of Nazareth

203. Our Lady of Peace

204. Our Lady of Perpetual Help

205. Our Lady of Pompeii

206. Our Lady of Pontmain

207. Our Lady of Prompt Succor

208. Our Lady of Providence

209. Our Lady of Ransom

210. Our Lady of Refuge

211. Our Lady of Safe Travel

212. Our Lady of Salambao

213. Our Lady of Shongweni

214. Our Lady of Sorrows

215. Our Lady of Tears

216. Our Lady of Victory

217. Our Lady of Walsingham

218. Our Lady of Washington

219. Our Lady of the Americas

220. Our Lady of the Assumption

221. Our Lady of the Cape

222. Our Lady of the Conquest

223. Our Lady of the Golden Heart

224. Our Lady of the Gulf

225. Our Lady of the Hermits

226. Our Lady of the Highways

227. Our Lady of the Holy Rosary

228. Our Lady of the Holy Souls

229. Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception

230. Our Lady of the Incarnation

231. Our Lady of the Kodiak and the Islands

232. Our Lady of the Milk and Happy Delivery

233. Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal

234. Our Lady of the Pillar of Saragossa

235. Our Lady of the Pines

236. Our Lady of the Prairie

237. Our Lady of the Presentation

238. Our Lady of the Rosary

239. Our Lady of the Snows

240. Our Lady of the Thorns

241. Our Lady of the Turumba

242. Our Lady of the Valley

243. Our Lady of the Wayside

244. Our Lady of the Woods

245. Our Lady Who Appeared

246. Our Own Sweet Mother

247. Paradise Fenced Against the Serpent

248. Paradise of Innocence and Immortality

249. Paradise of the Second Adam

250. Paradise Planted by God

251. Patroness and Protectoress

252. Perfume of Faith

253. Preserved From All Sin

254. Protectress From All Hurt

255. Queen of All Saints

256. Queen of Angels

257. Queen of Creation

258. Queen of Heaven

259. Queen of Heaven and Earth

260. Queen of Martyrs

261. Queen of Nigeria

262. Queen of Peace

263. Queen Unconquered

264. Refuge in Time of Danger

265. Reparatrix

266. Reparatrix of Her Parents

267. Reparatrix of the Lord World

268. Rich in Mercy

269. Rose Ever Blooming

270. Sanctuary of the Holy Spirit

271. Salve Regina

272. Scepter of Orthodoxy

273. Seat of Wisdom

274. Second Eve

275. Singular Vessel of Devotion

276. Sister and Mother

277. Source of Virginity

278. Spiritual Vessel

279. Spotless Dove of Beauty

280. Star of the Sea

281. Star That Bore the Sea

282. Suppliant for Sinners

283. Surpassing Eden's Gardens

284. Surpassing the Heavens

285. Surpassing the Seraphim

286. Sweet Flowering and Gracious Mercy

287. Tabernacle of God

288. Tabernacle of the Word

289. Temple Divine

290. Temple Indestructible

291. Temple of the Lord's Body

292. Theotokos

293. Throne of the King

294. Tower Unassailable

295. Treasure House of Life

296. Treasure of Immortality

297. Treasure of the World Undefiled

298. Undefiled Treasure of Virginity

299. Undug Well of Remission's Waters

300. Unlearned in the Ways of Eve

301. Unplowed Field of Heaven's Bread

302. Unwatered Vineyard of Immortality's Wine

303. Vessel of Honor

304. Victor Over the Serpent

305. Virgin by the Sea

306. Virgin Inviolate

307. Virgin Most Faithful

308. Virgin Most Merciful

309. Virgin Most Powerful

310. Virgin Most Prudent

311. Virgin Most Pure

312. Virgin Mother

313. Virgin of Charity

314. Virgin of Copacabana

315. Virgin of Sheshan

316. Virgin of Virgins

317. Wedded to God

318. Workshop of the Incarnation

From the "Litany of the Blessed Virgin"


1. Holy Mary

2. Holy Mother of God

3. Most Honored of Virgins

4. Chosen Daughter of the Father

5. Mother of Christ

6. Glory of the Holy Spirit

7. Virgin Daughter of Zion

8. Virgin Poor and Humble

9. Virgin Gentle and Obedient

10. Handmaid of the Lord

11. Mother of the Lord

12. Helper of the Redeemed

13. Full of Grace

14. Fountain of Beauty

15. Model of Virtue

16. Finest Fruit of the Redemption

17. Perfect Disciple of Christ

18. Untarnished Image of the Church

19. Woman Transformed

20. Woman Clothed With the Sun

21. Woman Crowned With Stars

22. Gentile Lady

23. Gracious Lady

24. Our Lady

25. Joy of Israel

26. Splendor of the Church

27. Pride of the Human Race

28. Advocate of Grace

29. Minister of Holiness

30. Champion of God's People

31. Queen of Love

32. Queen of Mercy

33. Queen of Peace

34. Queen of Angels

35. Queen of Patriarchs and Prophets

36. Queen of Apostles and Martyrs

37. Queen of Confessors and Virgins

38. Queen of All Saints

39. Queen Conceived Without Original Sin

40. Queen Assumed into Heaven

41. Queen of All Earth

42. Queen of Heaven

43. Queen of the Universe

From Other Miscellaneous Sources


Note: Some of these might be considered duplicates as they are slight variations of each other (E.g., Lady of the Rosary and Our Lady of the Rosary). Both are left in the list as one might be more appropriate in some circumstances.


1. Adam's Deliverance

2. Advocate of Eve

3. Advocate of Sinners

4. All Chaste

5. All Fair and Immaculate

6. All Good

7. Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin

8. Aqueduct of Grace

9. Archetype fo Purity and Innocence

10. Ark Gilded by the Holy Spirit

11. Assumption of the Blessed Virgin

12. Basillica of Saint Mary Major

13. Blessed Among Women

14. Blessed Virgin Mary

15. Bridal Chamber of the Lord

16. Bride of Christ

17. Bride of Heaven

18. Bride of the Canticle

19. Bride of the Father

20. Bride Unbrided

21. Chosen Before the Ages

22. Comfort of Christians

23. Comforter of the Afflicted

24. Conceived Without Original Sin

25. Consoler of the Afflicated

26. Co-Redemptrix

27. Court of the Eternal King

28. Created Temple of the Creator

29. Crown of Virginity

30. Daughter of Men

31. David's Daughter

32. Deliverer From All Wrath

33. Deliverer of Christian Nations

34. Destroyer of Heresies

35. Dispenser of Grace

36. Dwelling Place for God

37. Dwelling Place Meet for God

38. Dwelling Place of the Illimitable

39. Dwelling Place of the Spirit

40. Earth Unsown

41. Earth Untouched and Virginal

42. Eastern Gate

43. Ever Green and Fruitful

44. Ever Virgin

45. Eve's Tears Redeeming

46. Exalted Above the Angels

47. Feast of the Immaculate Conception

48. Fleece of Heavenly Rain

49. Flower of Carmel

50. Flower of Jesse's Root

51. Formed Without Sin

52. Forthbringer of God

53. Forthbringer of the Ancient of Days

54. Forthbringer of the Tree of Life

55. Fountain of Living Water

56. Fountain Sealed

57. Free From Every Stain

58. Garden Enclosed

59. God's Eden

60. God's Olive Tree

61. God's Vessel

62. Healing Balm of Integrity

63. Helper of All in Danger

64. Holy in Soul and Body

65. Holy Mountain of Our Lady

66. Hope of Christians

67. House Built by Wisdom

68. Immaculate

69. Immaculate Conception

70. Immaculate Heart

71. Immaculate Heart of Mary

72. Immaculate Mary

73. Immaculate Mother

74. Immaculate Virgin

75. Incorruptible Wood of the Ark

76. Inventrix of Grace

77. Inviolate

78. Joseph's Spouse

79. Kingly Throne

80. King's Mother

81. Lady Most Chaste

82. Lady Most Venerable

83. Lady of Good Help

84. Lady of Grace

85. Lady of Mercy

86. Lady of Peace

87. Lady of Perpetual Help

88. Lady of the Rosary

89. Lady of Sorrows

90. Lady of Victory

91. Lamp Unquenchable

92. Life-Giver to Posterity

93. Light Cloud of Heavenly Rain

94. Lily Among Thorns

95. Living Temple of the Diety

96. Loom of the Incarnation

97. Madonna of Saint Luke

98. Marketplace for Salutary Exchange

99. Mary of the Assumptions

100. Mary of the Hurons

From the "Litany of Loreto"


1. Mother of the Church

2. Mother of Divine grace

3. Mother Most Pure

4. Mother of Chaste Love

5. Mother and Virgin

6. Sinless Mother

7. Dearest of Mothers

8. Model of Motherhood

9. Mother of Good Counsel

10. Mother of Our Creator

11. Mother of Our Savior

12. Virgin Most Wise

13. Virgin Rightly Praised

14. Virgin Rightly Renowned

15. Virgin Most Powerful

16. Virgin Gentle in Mercy

17. Faithful Virgin

18. Mirror of Justice

19. Throne of Wisdom

20. Cause of Our Joy

21. Shrine of the Spirit

22. Glory of Israel

23. Vessel of Selfless Devotion

24. Mystical Rose

25. Tower of David

26. Tower of Ivory

27. House of Gold

28. Ark of the Covenant

29. Gate of Heaven

30. Morning Star

31. Health of the Sick

32. Refuge of Sinners

33. Comfort of the Troubled

35. Queen of the Rosary

36. Queen of Peace [repeated from above]


In "Glories of Mary" by Liguori, whose writings at the time of his canonization were declared to be absolutely free from error (such as by Pope Gregory XVL in the bull of canonization in 1839), he teaches,

“He who is under the protection of Mary will be saved; he who is not will be lost . . . O immaculate Virgin, we are under thy protection, and therefore we have recourse, to thee alone, and we beseech thee to prevent thy beloved Son, who is irritated by our sins, from abandoning us to the power of the devil. - . . Thou (Mary) art my only hope. . . . Lady in heaven, we have but one advocate, and that is thyself, and thou alone art truly loving and solicitous for our salvation ... My Queen and my Advocate with thy Son, whom I dare not approach “ (From Judge Fairly, p. 5).

The following quotes are from the book “Ten Series of Meditations on the Mystery of the Rosary,” by John Ferraro, whose book was given the Nihil Obstat and the Imprimatur, which is an official statement by the Roman Catholic Church that the book "is free of doctrinal or moral error."

(a) She [Mary] is co-Redemptrix of the human race.

(b) The church and the saints greet her thus: "You, O Mary, together with Jesus Christ, redeemed us."

(c) God has ordained that no grace will be granted to us except through Mary. It is a doctrine preached by all the saints that no grace will come to us from heaven without passing through Mary's hands. No one will be saved nor obtain mercy except through You, O' heavenly lady. Remember this well, no one will enter heaven without passing through Mary as one would pass through a door. O' Mary, our salvation is in your hands.

(d) During His passion, Mary suffered in her heart all the pains that Jesus suffered in His body. For this reason, God exalted her so greatly.

(e) Mary is our co-Redemptrix because she gave us Jesus pledge of our salvation. Furthermore, she is co-Redemptrix of the human race, because with Christ she ransomed mankind from the power of Satan.

(f) Jesus redeemed us with the blood of His body, Mary with the agonies of her heart.

(g) We were condemned through the fault of one woman; we are saved through the merits of another woman. Just as Eve was the root of death for everyone, so Mary was the source of life for everyone.

(h) Mary is our co-Redemptrix because she suffered in her heart whatever was lacking in the passion of Christ. Are we obligated to Jesus for His passions? -- so we are indebted to Mary for her participation in His passions. She gave birth to Jesus with joy; she gave birth to us, brothers of Jesus, in anguish and sorrow.

(i) Mary, Queen of the Apostles: She is queen of apostles because she formed them and directed them in their preaching. Mary is Queen of Apostles because by herself she routed all the heresies. Mary is Queen of Apostles because she is mother of grace and channel of mercy. She is Queen of Apostles because in her every hope is life and virtue. She is Queen of Apostles because she is conqueror of the Infernal Dragon. (Emphasis added.)

(j) If we spread devotion to Mary, we will gain heaven -- "Who explains me will have life everlasting."

(k) God shared His power with her [Mary]. "My mother, ask, for I must not turn away your face." Christ speaking to Mary: "Without your command, no one shall move hand or foot in the whole land."

(l) All grace is passed from God to Jesus, from Jesus to Mary, and from Mary to us. The grace of God, cure for our ills, comes to us through Mary like water through an aqueduct.

(m) Mary is the compliment of the Holy Spirit. Before God she asks not -- she commands!

(n) No true devotee of Mary will be damned because she is the terrible conqueror of the devil.

(o) Because she believed in Christ's mission of salvation, she became the co-Redemptrix of the whole human race.

(p) Mary is holier than the saints, loftier than the heavens, more glorious than the cherubim, more venerable than any other creature.

(q) No one can acquire an intimate union with Jesus and a perfect fidelity to the Holy Spirit without being greatly united with Mary.

(r) It is necessary for us to have a mediator besides Jesus as mediator, and we will never find one more qualified than Mary. (Emphasis added.)

(s) It was never written of anyone that he became a saint without having a special devotion to Mary.

(u) Mary is the ark of salvation built by God on the deluge of our faults so that whoever desires may enter and be saved.

(w) It is important to be devoted to Mary as it is to enter heaven, because no one can enter Paradise who is not devoted to Mary.

(x) In reward for humility, God gave to Mary the power of filling with blessed souls the thrones left empty by the rebellious angels.

(y) Mary is secretary of the King of Heaven. It is she who writes in the Book of Life the names of the predestined, and signs them with the emblem of God. She herself is the Book of Life from which God will read the names of the elect on the day of judgment.

It is indeed grievous extrapolate a Heaven demi-godess out of Scripture, while the Bible rightly honors her but not as an object of prayer, etc. To Christ the Holy Spirit directs us, as the one uniquely qualified to be our intercessor, being the only One who "was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." (Heb 4:16). And as all power in Heaven and on earth is given to Him, He is not only all perfect but all powerful, and is not shown delegating others in Heaven to handle prayer requests, and earthly analogies fail. We thus have no need of praying other Heavenly intercessors. The Bible offers NONE, and to pray to another is an insult to Christ.

(Heb 7:25) "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.


187 posted on 02/04/2012 7:22:38 PM PST by daniel1212 (Trust in the Lord Jesus to save you as a contrite damned+morally destitute sinner + be forgiven+live)
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To: daniel1212
Thank you daniel for the fantastic information. I have one question that I would love to have answered by a Roman Catholic.

Is Jesus Christ subject to His mother Mary, in heaven? If her position in heaven is Mater Dei, the Mother of God, then is He subject to her? I would LOVE to have an honest answer to that question...

188 posted on 02/04/2012 7:34:33 PM PST by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing are for an eternity..)
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To: smvoice
Is Jesus Christ subject to His mother Mary, in heaven? If her position in heaven is Mater Dei, the Mother of God, then is He subject to her? I would LOVE to have an honest answer to that question...

The answer is no.

189 posted on 02/04/2012 7:51:59 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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Comment #190 Removed by Moderator

To: smvoice; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; count-your-change; ...
Is Jesus Christ subject to His mother Mary, in heaven? If her position in heaven is Mater Dei, the Mother of God, then is He subject to her? I would LOVE to have an honest answer to that question...

I believe that this quote answers that question.

When therefore we read in the writings of Saint Bernard, Saint Bernardine, Saint Bonaventure, and others that all in heaven and on earth, even God himself, is subject to the Blessed Virgin, they mean that the authority which God was pleased to give her is so great that she seems to have the same power as God. Her prayers and requests are so powerful with him that he accepts them as commands in the sense that he never resists his dear mother’s prayer because it is always humble and conformed to his will.... St. Louis de Montfort, in Treatise on True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin, #27, 246.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/Montfort/TRUEDEVO.HTM

And after all that, from Catholic sources no less, including popes, Catholics still deny what is patently obvious to anyone with any reading comprehension and that is that Mary is indeed worshiped and deified.

191 posted on 02/04/2012 8:32:16 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: daniel1212
It is all about her place in Salvation history with flowery words of endearment. Christ has to honor her for all time from the Ten Commandments because He is the Sinless Lamb. He never can sin as the Savior or sinless Lamb for all eternity.

HE HAS TO OBEY THE TEN COMMNDMENTS TO BE THE SINLESS LAMB.

The fifth commandment

The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17 NKJV) 1 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me. .................. 5 "HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER“, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you. .......................... 10 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”

5 "HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER“, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

St John The Apostle

Sorry he had a mother! He is still Human as testified by John The Apostle!

Revelation 5:6 - Then I saw a Lamb, looking as it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne

Photobucket

He Saw THE Christ as The Sinless Lamb.

Photobucket

Which can only mean He was still Human in eternity because he was Slain on the Cross as a Human.

HE is bound by his own Ten Commandment laws otherwise we do not have a Savior.

HE CAN NOT AND WILL NOT SIN AGAINST THE TEN COMMANDMENTS!!!

GOD'S LAMB

Genesis 22:8 - God Himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering.

Exodus 12:5 - Your lamb shall be without blemish.

Isaiah 53:7 - He was oppressed and afflicted, yet He did not open His mouth; He was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so He did not open His mouth.

John 1:29 - Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world.

1 Peter 1:18-19 - You were redeemed...with the precious blood of Christ, a Lamb without blemish or defect.

Revelation 5:6 - Then I saw a Lamb, looking as it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne.

The region surrounding Bethlehem was ideal for raising sheep. Not only was there good grazing land, but the hillsides contained numerous caves which could be used by shepherds for shelter. Furthermore, there was an excellent market in nearby Jerusalem for these sheep. Many of Bethlehem's sheep were raised for sacrifice at the Temple. During the special feast days in Israel's religious calendar, thousands of Jews would come to their holy city from all over the Roman Empire to offer sacrifices. Rather than transport their sacrificial lambs from distant homes, they would buy them in Jerusalem. By law, the sheep slated for sacrifice had to be without blemish or defect. (See Exodus 12:5; Leviticus 22-23; Numbers 28-29.) Thus the shepherds in the region of Bethlehem kept close watch over their special sheep.

Approximately 2000 years ago, a very special Lamb was born in Bethlehem. He was born to die as a sacrificial Lamb in Jeru-salem. He was born without blemish and was closely watched to insure that He was the perfect Lamb for sacrifice. In due time this Lamb was brought by God Himself to the place of sacrifice--a sacrifice for the sins of the people He loved. Thus as John the Baptist announced, Jesus was God's Lamb "who takes away the sin of the world." (John 1:29, 36).

God's Lamb was spotless. There was no sin in the perfect Lamb that God provided for sacrifice. The Bible states in no uncertain terms that the Lord Jesus Christ was sinless. "He committed no sin." (1 Peter 2:22). "He knew no sin." (2 Cor-inthians 5:21). "In Him is no sin." (1 John 3:5). Twice during the earthly life of our Lord Jesus, the Father's voice was heard from the heavens as He observed His spotless Lamb: "This is My beloved Son in Whom I am well pleased." (Matthew 3:17 and 17:5). Notice that this divine declaration was made not only in the last year of our Lord's public ministry (Matthew 17:5), but it was also said at His baptism even before He began His public min-istry. Before any of the miracles or great discourses, God declared that His Lamb was spotless. Think of the Lord Jesus growing up as a young boy. He never cheated in games or studies. He was never selfish with His few toys and personal possessions. He always told the truth to His parents and teachers. Think of the Lord Jesus as a young man. He never lost His composure in the carpenter shop because of "lost" tools or "bad" wood. He never threw up His hands in disgust or raised His voice out of frustration. As He grew into manhood, His thoughts about the opposite sex were always pure. He always honored His folks. How convicted we are of our sins and our sinful nature as we think of the spotless Lamb of God.

For approximately 33 years, God's Lamb was tested and proved day and night in the field of human life with all its afflictions and attractions, "yet He was without sin" (Hebrews 4:15). And then came that focal day of history when the Lamb of God "offered Himself without blemish to God" (Hebrews 9:14), in order that we might be cleansed from sin. As Old Testament Israel was redeemed out of slavery in Egypt by means of the shed blood of the Passover lamb (Exodus 12), so we have been redeemed "with the precious blood of Christ, a Lamb unblemished and spotless" (1 Peter 1:19).

God's Lamb was silent. When mistreated, the Lord Jesus spoke no guile or retaliation or threat (1 Peter 2:22-23). When falsely accused, He did not protest or demand to be heard. (See Matthew 26:62-63 and 27:12-14.) When He was afflicted and attacked, He did not complain or voice bitterness or cry out for immediate retribution--even though it was always in His power to do so. (See Matthew 26:53.) How wondrously different from us was our Lord in His silence. Too often we are so engrossed in self-pity and so bent on self-justification that we find it impossible to keep our mouths shut. According to 1 Peter 2:19-23, we should "mouth off" less, even when unjustly treated, for we are called to follow our Lord's example.

The silence of God's Lamb was predicted 700 years before His coming by Isaiah the prophet. In that magnificent 53rd chapter we find the coming Messiah likened to a silent lamb (v7). Sheep that are silent before their shearers or silent on their way to slaughter, for the most part, are not aware of what is about to happen. But not so with God's Lamb. He was fully aware that in the prime of His life, He was about to be "cut off out of the land of the living" (v8). And yet He was like a lamb led to slaughter and like a sheep before shearers--silent!

Although silence is the main thought in the comparison of the Lord Jesus with a sheep that is about to be sheared, there may be an additional line of thought for meditation in the idea of shearing. Our Lord was certainly shorn for our sakes on His way to the cross. He voluntarily stripped Himself of His heavenly "robes" of glory and majesty when He came to this earth and took on humanity. He was divested of rightful honor throughout His public ministry. The nation of Israel continually dishonored Him when they would not receive Him as their Messiah--even after He presented all the necessary credentials. Their dishonor actually reached the depths of accusing Christ of being in league with the devil!

Our Lord underwent the shearing of personal dignity, especially during His trial and crucifixion. He was mocked and spit on. He was despised and treated as a worm and not human (Psalm 22:6). He literally was stripped of His clothes, a shame and ignominy particularly humiliating in that culture.

Ultimately the shearing process involved His own right-eousness, as Christ became the sin bearer. Of course this does not mean that the Lord Jesus ever became anything less than perfectly righteous in His intrinsic personal essence. As our sub-stitute on the cross, however, He took upon Himself our sin. The full wrath of God against our sin fell on Christ as if we, the unrighteous, were hanging on that cross. Because of Christ's "shearing", we have been "cloth-ed" with righteousness. (See 2 Corinthians 5:21.) Finally, the shearing involved the physical life of the Lord Jesus. He willingly gave up His life for us in death--even death on the cross! (Read Philippians 2:5-8.) The unselfish silence of the Lamb of God through a life-time of shearing stands out in marked contrast to our constant bleating.

God's Lamb was sacrificed. The death of Christ was no accident of history. In the natural way of looking at things it appeared that Jesus of Nazareth just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. If only He had stayed in Galilee! If only He had defended Himself! If only He had escaped when He had the chance! But from the divine perspective everything was according to plan and right on schedule. (See Acts 2:23.)

Jesus Christ was God's Lamb brought to the place of sacrifice. Many years before, at the time of Abraham, God had provided a special lamb for the burnt offering sacrifice at just the right time. (Read the account in Genesis 22.) Now God was providing His most special Lamb for the once-for-all sacrifice for sin. Surely Christ was the ultimate fulfillment of the promise: "God will provide for Himself a Lamb for the burnt offering" (Genesis 22:8).

192 posted on 02/04/2012 9:01:13 PM PST by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: daniel1212

Scripture

I. The Uniqueness of Mary as the Mother of God

Gen. 3:15 - we see from the very beginning that God gives Mary a unique role in salvation history. God says “I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed.” This refers to Jesus (the “emnity”) and Mary (the “woman”). The phrase “her seed” (spermatos) is not seen elsewhere in Scripture.

Gen 3:15 / Rev. 12:1 - the Scriptures begin and end with the woman battling satan. This points to the power of the woman with the seed and teaches us that Jesus and Mary are the new Adam and the new Eve.

John 2:4, 19:26 - Jesus calls Mary “woman” as she is called in Gen. 3:15. Just as Eve was the mother of the old creation, Mary is the mother of the new creation. This woman’s seed will crush the serpent’s skull.

Isaiah 7:14; Matt. 1:23 - a virgin (the Greek word used is “parthenos”) will bear a Son named Emmanuel, which means “God is with us.” John 1:14 - God in flesh dwelt among us. Mary is the Virgin Mother of God.

Matt. 2:11 - Luke emphasizes Jesus is with Mary His Mother, and the magi fall down before both of them, worshiping Jesus.

Luke 1:35 - the child will be called holy, the Son of God. Mary is the Mother of the Son of God, or the Mother of God (the “Theotokos”).

Luke 1:28 - “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.” These are the words spoken by God and delivered to us by the angel Gabriel (who is a messenger of God). Thus, when Catholics recite this verse while praying the Rosary, they are uttering the words of God.

Luke 1:28 - also, the phrase “full of grace” is translated from the Greek word “kecharitomene.” This is a unique title given to Mary, and suggests a perfection of grace from a past event. Mary is not just “highly favored.” She has been perfected in grace by God. “Full of grace” is only used to describe one other person - Jesus Christ in John 1:14.

Luke 1:38 - Mary’s fiat is “let it be done to me according to thy word.” Mary is the perfect model of faith in God, and is worthy of our veneration.

Luke 1:42 - “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus.” The phrase “blessed are you among women” really means “you are most blessed of all women.” A circumlocution is used because there is no superlative in the Greek language. Note also that Elizabeth praises Mary first, and then Jesus. This is hyperdulia (but not latria which is worship owed to God alone). We too can go through Mary to praise Jesus. Finally, Catholics repeat these divinely inspired words of Elizabeth in the Rosary.

Luke 1:43 - Elizabeth’s use of “Mother of my Lord” (in Hebrew, Elizabeth used “Adonai” which means Lord God) is the equivalent of “Holy Mary, Mother of God” which Catholics pray in the Rosary. The formula is simple: Jesus is a divine person, and this person is God. Mary is Jesus’ Mother, so Mary is the mother of God (Mary is not just the Mother of Jesus’ human nature - mothers are mothers of persons, not natures).

Luke 1:44 - Mary’s voice causes John the Baptist to leap for joy in Elizabeth’s womb. Luke is teaching us that Mary is our powerful intercessor.

Luke 1:46 - Mary claims that her soul magnifies the Lord. This is a bold statement from a young Jewish girl from Nazareth. Her statement is a strong testimony to her uniqueness. Mary, as our Mother and intercessor, also magnifies our prayers.

Luke 1:48 - Mary prophesies that all generations shall call her blessed, as Catholics do in the “Hail Mary” prayer. What Protestant churches have existed in all generations (none), and how many of them call Mary blessed with special prayers and devotions?

Gal. 4:4 - God sent His Son, born of a woman, to redeem us. Mary is the woman with the redeemer. By calling Mary co-redemptrix, we are simply calling Mary “the woman with the redeemer.” This is because “co” is from the Latin word “cum” which means “with.” Therefore, “co-redemptrix” means “woman with the redeemer.” Mary had a unique but subordinate role to Jesus in salvation.

Eph. 1:1; Phil. 1:1; Col. 1:2 - the word “saints” (in Hebrew “qaddiysh”) means “holy” ones. So Mary is called Holy, the greatest Saint of all.

Luke 2:35 - Simeon prophesies that a sword would also pierce Mary’s soul. Mary thus plays a very important role in our redemption. While Jesus’ suffering was all that we needed for redemption, God desired Mary to participate on a subordinate level in her Son’s suffering, just as he allows us to participate through our own sufferings.

Luke 2:19,51 - Mary kept in mind all these things as she pondered them in her heart. Catholics remember this by devoting themselves to Mary’s Immaculate Heart and all the treasures and wisdom and knowledge contained therein.

Top

II. Mary - the Immaculate Ark of the New Covenant

Exodus 25:11-21 - the ark of the Old Covenant was made of the purest gold for God’s Word. Mary is the ark of the New Covenant and is the purest vessel for the Word of God made flesh.

2 Sam. 6:7 - the Ark is so holy and pure that when Uzzah touched it, the Lord slew him. This shows us that the Ark is undefiled. Mary the Ark of the New Covenant is even more immaculate and undefiled, spared by God from original sin so that she could bear His eternal Word in her womb.

1 Chron. 13:9-10 - this is another account of Uzzah and the Ark. For God to dwell within Mary the Ark, Mary had to be conceived without sin. For Protestants to argue otherwise would be to say that God would let the finger of Satan touch His Son made flesh. This is incomprehensible.

1 Chron. 15 and 16 - these verses show the awesome reverence the Jews had for the Ark - veneration, vestments, songs, harps, lyres, cymbals, trumpets.

Luke 1:39 / 2 Sam. 6:2 - Luke’s conspicuous comparison’s between Mary and the Ark described by Samuel underscores the reality of Mary as the undefiled and immaculate Ark of the New Covenant. In these verses, Mary (the Ark) arose and went / David arose and went to the Ark. There is a clear parallel between the Ark of the Old and the Ark of the New Covenant.

Luke 1:41 / 2 Sam. 6:16 - John the Baptist / King David leap for joy before Mary / Ark. So should we leap for joy before Mary the immaculate Ark of the Word made flesh.

Luke 1:43 / 2 Sam. 6:9 - How can the Mother / Ark of the Lord come to me? It is a holy privilege. Our Mother wants to come to us and lead us to Jesus.

Luke 1:56 / 2 Sam. 6:11 and 1 Chron. 13:14 - Mary / the Ark remained in the house for about three months.

Rev 11:19 - at this point in history, the Ark of the Old Covenant was not seen for six centuries (see 2 Macc. 2:7), and now it is finally seen in heaven. The Jewish people would have been absolutely amazed at this. However, John immediately passes over this fact and describes the “woman” clothed with the sun in Rev. 12:1. John is emphasizing that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant and who, like the Old ark, is now worthy of veneration and praise. Also remember that Rev. 11:19 and Rev. 12:1 are tied together because there was no chapter and verse at the time these texts were written.

Rev 12:1 - the “woman” that John is describing is Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. Just as the moon reflects the light of the sun, so Mary, with the moon under her feet, reflects the glory of the Sun of Justice, Jesus Christ.

Rev. 12:17 - this verse tells us that Mary’s offspring are those who keep God’s commandments and bear testimony to Jesus. This demonstrates, as Catholics have always believed, that Mary is the Mother of all Christians.

Rev. 12:2 - Some Protestants argue that, because the woman had birth pangs, she was a woman with sin. However, Revelation is apocalyptic literature unique to the 1st century. It contains varied symbolism and multiple meanings of the woman (Mary, the Church and Israel). The birth pangs describe both the birth of the Church and Mary’s offspring being formed in Christ. Mary had no birth pangs in delivering her only Son Jesus.

Isaiah 66:7 - for example, we see Isaiah prophesying that before she (Mary) was in labor she gave birth; before her pain came upon her she was delivered of a son (Jesus). This is a Marian prophecy of the virgin birth of Jesus Christ.

Gal 4:19 - Paul also describes his pain as birth pangs in forming the disciples in Christ. Birth pangs describe formation in Christ.

Rom. 8:22 - also, Paul says the whole creation has been groaning in travail before the coming of Christ. We are all undergoing birth pangs because we are being reborn into Jesus Christ.

Jer. 13:21 - Jeremiah describes the birth pangs of Israel, like a woman in travail. Birth pangs are usually used metaphorically in the Scriptures.

Hos. 13:12-13 - Ephraim is also described as travailing in childbirth for his sins. Again, birth pangs are used metaphorically.

Micah 4:9-10 - Micah also describes Jerusalem as being seized by birth pangs like a woman in travail.

Rev. 12:13-16 - in these verses, we see that the devil still seeks to destroy the woman even after the Savior is born. This proves Mary is a danger to satan, even after the birth of Christ. This is because God has given her the power to intercede for us, and we should invoke her assistance in our spiritual lives.

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III. Mary is our Mother and Queen of the New Davidic Kingdom

John 19:26 - Jesus makes Mary the Mother of us all as He dies on the Cross by saying “behold your mother.” Jesus did not say “John, behold your mother” because he gave Mary to all of us, his beloved disciples. All the words that Jesus spoke on Cross had a divine purpose. Jesus was not just telling John to take care of his mother.

Rev. 12:17 - this verse proves the meaning of John 19:26. The “woman’s” (Mary’s) offspring are those who follow Jesus. She is our Mother and we are her offspring in Jesus Christ. The master plan of God’s covenant love for us is family. But we cannot be a complete family with the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Christ without the Motherhood of Mary.

John 2:3 - this is a very signifcant verse in Scripture. As our mother, Mary tells all of us to do whatever Jesus tells us. Further, Mary’s intercession at the marriage feast in Cana triggers Jesus’ ministry and a foreshadowing of the Eucharistic celebration of the Lamb. This celebration unites all believers into one famiy through the marriage of divinity and humanity.

John 2:7 - Jesus allows His mother to intercede for the people on His behalf, and responds to His mother’s request by ordering the servants to fill the jars with water.

Psalm 45:9 - the psalmist teaches that the Queen stands at the right hand of God. The role of the Queen is important in God’s kingdom. Mary the Queen of heaven is at the right hand of the Son of God.

1 Kings 2:17, 20 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the King does not refuse his mother. Jesus is the new Davidic King, and He does not refuse the requests of his mother Mary, the Queen.

1 Kings 2:18 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the Queen intercedes on behalf of the King’s followers. She is the Queen Mother (or “Gebirah”). Mary is our eternal Gebirah.

1 Kings 2:19 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom the King bows down to his mother and she sits at his right hand. We, as children of the New Covenant, should imitate our King and pay the same homage to Mary our Mother. By honoring Mary, we honor our King, Jesus Christ.

1 Kings 15:13 - the Queen Mother is a powerful position in Israel’s royal monarchy. Here the Queen is removed from office. But now, the Davidic kingdom is perfected by Jesus, and our Mother Mary is forever at His right hand.

2 Chron. 22:10 - here Queen Mother Athalia destroys the royal family of Judah after she sees her son, King Ahaziah, dead. The Queen mother plays a significant role in the kingdom.

Neh. 2:6 - the Queen Mother sits beside the King. She is the primary intercessor before the King.

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IV. Mary is Ever Virgin

Exodus 13:2,12 - Jesus is sometimes referred to as the “first-born” son of Mary. But “first-born” is a common Jewish expression meaning the first child to open the womb. It has nothing to do the mother having future children.

Exodus 34:20 - under the Mosaic law, the “first-born” son had to be sanctified. “First-born” status does not require a “second” born.

Ezek. 44:2 - Ezekiel prophesies that no man shall pass through the gate by which the Lord entered the world. This is a prophecy of Mary’s perpetual virginity. Mary remained a virgin before, during and after the birth of Jesus.

Mark 6:3 - Jesus was always referred to as “the” son of Mary, not “a” son of Mary. Also “brothers” could have theoretically been Joseph’s children from a former marriage that was dissolved by death. However, it is most likely, perhaps most certainly, that Joseph was a virgin, just as were Jesus and Mary. As such, they embodied the true Holy Family, fully consecrated to God.

Luke 1:31,34 - the angel tells Mary that you “will” conceive (using the future tense). Mary responds by saying, “How shall this be?” Mary’s response demonstrates that she had taken a vow of lifelong virginity by having no intention to have relations with a man. If Mary did not take such a vow of lifelong virginity, her question would make no sense at all (for we can assume she knew how a child is conceived). She was a consecrated Temple virgin as was an acceptable custom of the times.

Luke 2:41-51 - in searching for Jesus and finding Him in the temple, there is never any mention of other siblings.

John 7:3-4; Mark 3:21 - we see that younger “brothers” were advising Jesus. But this would have been extremely disrespectful for devout Jews if these were Jesus’ biological brothers.

John 19:26-27 - it would have been unthinkable for Jesus to commit the care of his mother to a friend if he had brothers.

John 19:25 - the following verses prove that James and Joseph are Jesus’ cousins and not his brothers: Mary the wife of Clopas is the sister of the Virgin Mary.

Matt. 27:61, 28:1 - Matthew even refers to Mary the wife of Clopas as “the other Mary.”

Matt. 27:56; Mark 15:47 - Mary the wife of Clopas is the mother of James and Joseph.

Mark 6:3 - James and Joseph are called the “brothers” of Jesus. So James and Joseph are Jesus’ cousins.

Matt. 10:3 - James is also called the son of “Alpheus.” This does not disprove that James is the son of Clopas. The name Alpheus may be Aramaic for Clopas, or James took a Greek name like Saul (Paul), or Mary remarried a man named Alpheus.

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V. Jesus’ “Brothers” (adelphoi)) = Cousins or Kinsmen

Luke 1:36 - Elizabeth is Mary’s kinswoman. Some Bibles translate kinswoman as “cousin,” but this is an improper translation because in Hebrew and Aramaic, there is no word for “cousin.”

Luke 22:32 - Jesus tells Peter to strengthen his “brethren.” In this case, we clearly see Jesus using “brethren” to refer to the other apostles, not his biological brothers.

Acts 1:12-15 - the gathering of Jesus’ “brothers” amounts to about 120. That is a lot of “brothers.” Brother means kinsmen in Hebrew.

Acts 7:26; 11:1; 13:15,38; 15:3,23,32; 28:17,21 - these are some of many other examples where “brethren” does not mean blood relations.

Rom. 9:3 - Paul uses “brethren” and “kinsmen” interchangeably. “Brothers” of Jesus does not prove Mary had other children.

Gen. 11:26-28 - Lot is Abraham’s nephew (”anepsios”) / Gen. 13:8; 14:14,16 - Lot is still called Abraham’s brother (adelphos”) . This proves that, although a Greek word for cousin is “anepsios,” Scripture also uses “adelphos” to describe a cousin.

Gen. 29:15 - Laban calls Jacob is “brother” even though Jacob is his nephew. Again, this proves that brother means kinsmen or cousin.

Deut. 23:7; 1 Chron. 15:5-18; Jer. 34:9; Neh. 5:7 -”brethren” means kinsmen. Hebrew and Aramaic have no word for “cousin.”

2 Sam. 1:26; 1 Kings 9:13, 20:32 - here we see that “brethren” can even be one who is unrelated (no bloodline), such as a friend.

2 Kings 10:13-14 - King Ahaziah’s 42 “brethren” were really his kinsmen.

1 Chron. 23:21-22 - Eleazar’s daughters married their “brethren” who were really their cousins.

Neh. 4:14; 5:1,5,8,10,14 - these are more examples of “brothers” meaning “cousins” or “kinsmen.”

Tobit 5:11 - Tobit asks Azarias to identify himself and his people, but still calls him “brother.”

Amos 1: 9 - brotherhood can also mean an ally (where there is no bloodline).

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VI. Mary’s Assumption into Heaven

Gen. 5:24, Heb. 11:5 - Enoch was bodily assumed into heaven without dying. Would God do any less for Mary the Ark of the New Covenant?

2 Kings 2:11-12; 1 Mac 2:58 - Elijah was assumed into heaven in fiery chariot. Jesus would not do any less for His Blessed Mother.

Psalm 132:8 - Arise, O Lord, and go to thy resting place, thou and the Ark (Mary) of thy might. Both Jesus and Mary were taken up to their eternal resting place in heaven.

2 Cor. 12:2 - Paul speaks of a man in Christ who was caught up to the third heaven. Mary was also brought up into heaven by God.

Matt. 27:52-53 - when Jesus died and rose, the bodies of the saints were raised. Nothing in Scripture precludes Mary’s assumption into heaven.

1 Thess. 4:17 - we shall be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we shall always be with the Lord.

Rev. 12:1 - we see Mary, the “woman,” clothed with the sun. While in Rev. 6:9 we only see the souls of the martyrs in heaven, in Rev. 12:1 we see Mary, both body and soul.

2 Thess. 2:15 - Paul instructs us to hold fast to oral (not just written) tradition. Apostolic tradition says Mary was assumed into heaven. While claiming the bones of the saints was a common practice during these times (and would have been especially important to obtain Mary’s bones as she was the Mother of God), Mary’s bones were never claimed. This is because they were not available. Mary was taken up body and soul into heaven.

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VII. Mary’s Coronation in Heaven

2 Tim 4:8 - Paul says that there is laid up for him the crown of righteousness. The saints are crowned in heaven, and Mary is the greatest saint of all.

James 1:12 - those who endure will receive the crown of life which God has promised. Mary has received the crown of life by bringing eternal life to the world.

1 Peter 5:4 - when the chief Shepherd is manifested we will receive the unfading crown of glory.

Rev. 2:10 - Jesus will give the faithful unto death the crown of life. Jesus gave Mary His Mother the crown of life.

Rev. 12:1 - Mary, the “woman,” is crowned with twelve stars. She is Queen of heaven and earth and the Mother of the Church.

Wis. 5:16 - we will receive a glorious crown and a beautiful diadem from the hand of the Lord. Mary is with Jesus forever crowned in His glory.

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VIII. Misunderstanding about Matthew 1:25 (Joseph knew her “not until”)

Matt. 1:25 - this verse says Joseph knew her “not until (”heos”, in Greek)” she bore a son. Some Protestants argue that this proves Joseph had relations with Mary after she bore a son. This is an erroneous reading of the text because “not until” does not mean “did not...until after.” “Heos” references the past, never the future. Instead, “not until” she bore a son means “not up to the point that” she bore a son. This confirms that Mary was a virgin when she bore Jesus. Here are other texts that prove “not until” means “not up to the point that”:

Matt. 28:29 - I am with you “until the end of the world.” This does not mean Jesus is not with us after the end of the world.

Luke 1:80 - John was in the desert “up to the point of his manifestation to Israel.” Not John “was in the desert until after” his manifestation.

Luke 2:37 - Anna was a widow “up to the point that” she was eighty-four years old. She was not a widow after eighty-four years old.

Luke 20:43 - Jesus says, “take your seat at my hand until I have made your enemies your footstool.” Jesus is not going to require the apostles to sit at His left hand after their enemies are their footstool.

1 Tim. 4:13 - “up to the point that I come,” attend to teaching and preaching. It does not mean do nothing “until after” I come.

Gen. 8:7 - the raven flew back and forth “up to the point that” [until] the waters dried from the earth. The raven did not start flying after the waters dried.

Gen. 28:15 - the Lord won’t leave Jacob “up to the point that” he does His promise. This does not mean the Lord will leave Jacob afterward.

Deut. 34:6 - but “up to the point of today” no one knows Moses’ burial place. This does not mean that “they did not know place until today.”

2 Sam. 6:23 - Saul’s daughter Micah was childless “up to the point” [until] her death. She was not with child after her death.

1 Macc. 5:54 - not one was slain “up to the point that” they returned in peace. They were not slain after they returned in peace.

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IX. Misunderstanding about Romans 3:23 (”All have sinned”)

Rom. 3:23 - Some Protestants use this verse “all have sinned” in an attempt to prove that Mary was also with sin. But “all have sinned “ only means that all are subject to original sin. Mary was spared from original sin by God, not herself. The popular analogy is God let us fall in the mud puddle, and cleaned us up afterward through baptism. In Mary’s case, God did not let her enter the mud puddle.

Rom. 3:23 - “all have sinned” also refers only to those able to commit sin. This is not everyone. For example, infants, the retarded, and the senile cannot sin.

Rom. 3:23 - finally, “all have sinned,” but Jesus must be an exception to this rule. This means that Mary can be an exception as well. Note that the Greek word for all is “pantes.”

1 Cor. 15:22 - in Adam all (”pantes”) have died, and in Christ all (”pantes”) shall live. This proves that “all” does not mean “every single one.” This is because not all have died (such as Enoch and Elijah who were taken up to heaven), and not all will go to heaven (because Jesus said so).

Rom. 5:12 - Paul says that death spread to all (”pantes”) men. Again, this proves that “all” does not mean “every single one” because death did not spread to all men (as we have seen with Enoch and Elijah).

Rom. 5:19 - here Paul says “many (not all) were made sinners.” Paul uses “polloi,” not “pantes.” Is Paul contradicting what he said in Rom. 3:23? Of course not. Paul means that all are subject to original sin, but not all reject God.

Rom. 3:10-11 - Protestants also use this verse to prove that all human beings are sinful and thus Mary must be sinful. But see Psalm 14 which is the basis of the verse.

Psalm 14 - this psalm does not teach that all humans are sinful. It only teaches that, among the wicked, all are sinful. The righteous continue to seek God.

Psalm 53:1-3 - “there is none that does good” expressly refers to those who have fallen away. Those who remain faithful do good, and Jesus calls such faithful people “good.”

Luke 18:19 - Jesus says, “No one is good but God alone.” But then in Matt. 12:35, Jesus also says “The good man out of his good treasure...” So Jesus says no one is good but God, and then calls another person good.

Rom. 9:11 - God distinguished between Jacob and Esau in the womb, before they sinned. Mary was also distinguished from the rest of humanity in the womb by being spared by God from original sin.

Luke 1:47 - Mary calls God her Savior. Some Protestants use this to denigrate Mary. Why? Of course God is Mary’s Savior! She was freed from original sin in the womb (unlike us who are freed from sin outside of the womb), but needed a Savior as much as the rest of humanity.

Luke 1:48 - Mary calls herself lowly. But any creature is lowly compared to God. For example, in Matt. 11:29, even Jesus says He is lowly in heart. Lowliness is a sign of humility, which is the greatest virtue of holiness, because it allows us to empty ourselves and receive the grace of God to change our sinful lives.

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X. Misunderstandings about Jesus “rebuking” Mary

Matt. 12:48; Mark 3:33; Luke 8:21 - when Jesus asks, “Who are my mother, and sisters and brothers?,” some Protestants argue that Jesus is rebuking Mary in order to denigrate her. To the contrary, when Jesus’ comments are read in light of Luke 8:5-15 and the parable of the sower which Jesus taught right before His question, Jesus is actually implying that Mary has already received the word as the sower of good ground and is bearing fruit. Jesus is teaching that others must, like Mary, also receive the word and obey it.

Matt. 12:48; Mark 3:33; Luke 8:21 - Jesus’ question about “who are my mother, and sisters and brothers” was also made in reference to Psalm 69:8-9. Jesus the Prophet was answering the psalmist’s prophecy that those closest to Him would betray Him at His passion. Jesus is emphasizing the spiritual family’s importance over the biological family, and the importance of being faithful to Him. While many were unfaithful to Jesus, Mary remained faithful to Him, even to the point of standing at the foot of the Cross.

Matt. 12:48; Mark 3:33; Luke 8:21 - finally, to argue that Jesus rebuked Mary is to argue that Jesus violated the Torah, here, the 4th commandment. This argument is blasphemous because it essentially says that God committed sin by dishonoring His Mother.

Luke 11:28 - when Jesus says, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it,” some Protestants also call this a rebuke of Mary. Again, to the contrary, Jesus is exalting Mary by emphasizing her obedience to God’s word as being more critical than her biological role of mother. This affirms Luke 1:48.

Luke 11:28 - also, the Greek word for “rather” is “menounge.” Menounge really means “Yes, but in addition,” or “Further.” Thus, Jesus is saying, yes my mother is blessed indeed, but further blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it. Jesus is encouraging others to follow Mary’s example in order to build up His kingdom.

Luke 11:27-28 - finally, Jesus is the one being complimented, not Mary. Therefore, Jesus is refocusing the attention from Him to others who obey the word of God. If He is refocusing the attention away from Him to others, His comment cannot be a rebuke of Mary His mother.

John 2:4 - this is another example that Protestants use to diminish Mary’s significance. Jesus’ question to Mary, “what have you to do with me?” does no such thing. To the contrary, Jesus’ question illustrates the importance of Mary’s role in the kingdom. Jesus’ question is in reality an invitation to His mother to intercede on behalf of all believers and begin His ministry, and His Mother understands this. Mary thus immediately intercedes, Jesus obeys her, and performs the miracle which commenced His ministry of redemption.

Luke 8:28 - the demons tell Jesus the same thing, “what have you to do with us.” The demons are not rebuking Jesus, for God would not allow it. Instead, the demons are acknowledging the power of Jesus by their question to Him.

John 2:4; 19:26 - when Jesus uses the title “woman” (gnyai), it is a title of dignity and respect. It is the equivalent of Lady or Madam. Jesus honored His Mother as God requires us to do.

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Tradition / Church Fathers

I. Mary is the Mother of God

“After this, we receive the doctrine of the resurrection from the dead, of which Jesus Christ our Lord became the first-fruits; Who bore a Body, in truth, not in semblance, derived from Mary the mother of God in the fullness of time sojourning among the race, for the remission of sins: who was crucified and died, yet for all this suffered no diminution of His Godhead.” Alexander of Alexandria, Epistle to Alexander, 12 (A.D. 324).

“Many, my beloved, are the true testimonies concerning Christ. The Father bears witness from heaven of His Son: the Holy Ghost bears witness, descending bodily in likeness of a dove: the Archangel Gabriel bears witness, bringing good tidings to Mary: the Virgin Mother of God bears witness: the blessed place of the manger bears witness.” Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, X:19 (c. A.D. 350).

“And the Angel on his appearance, himself confesses that he has been sent by his Lord; as Gabriel confessed in the case of Zacharias, and also in the case of Mary, bearer of God.” Athanasius, Orations III, 14(A.D. 362).

“Just as, in the age of Mary the mother of God, he who had reigned from Adam to her time found, when he came to her and dashed his forces against the fruit of her virginity as against a rock, that he was shattered to pieces upon her, so in every soul which passes through this life in the flesh under the protection of virginity, the strength of death is in a manner broken and annulled, for he does not find the places upon which he may fix his sting.” Gregory of Nyssa, On Virginity, 14 (A.D. 370).

“He reshaped man to perfection in Himself, from Mary the Mother of God through the Holy Spirit.” Epiphanius, The man well-anchored, 75 (A.D. 374).

“Let, then, the life of Mary be as it were virginity itself, set forth in a likeness, from which, as from a mirror, the appearance of chastity and the form of virtue is reflected. From this you may take your pattern of life, showing, as an example, the clear rules of virtue: what you have to correct, to effect, and to hold fast. The first thing which kindles ardour in learning is the greatness of the teacher. What is greater than the Mother of God?” Ambrose, Virginity, II:6 (c. A.D. 378).

“If anyone does not believe that Holy Mary is the Mother of God, he is severed from the Godhead.” Gregory of Nazianzus, To Cledonius, 101 (A.D. 382).

“To the question: ‘Is Mary the bearer of Man, or the bearer of God?’ we must answer: ‘Of Both.’” Theodore of Mopsuestia, The Incarnation, 15 (ante A.D. 428).

“And so you say, O heretic, whoever you may be, who deny that God was born of the Virgin, that Mary the Mother of our Lord Jesus Christ ought not to be called Theotocos, i.e., Mother of God, but Christotocos, i.e., only the Mother of Christ, not of God. For no one, you say, brings forth what is anterior in time. And of this utterly foolish argument whereby you think that the birth of God can be understood by carnal minds, and fancy that the mystery of His Majesty can be accounted for by human reasoning, we will, if God permits, say something later on. In the meanwhile we will now prove by Divine testimonies that Christ is God, and that Mary is the Mother of God.” John Cassian, The Incarnation of Christ, II:2 (A.D. 430).

“But since the Holy Virgin brought forth after the flesh God personally united to the flesh, for this reason we say of her that she is Theotokos, not as though the nature of the Word had its beginning of being from the flesh, for he was in the beginning, and the Word was God, and the Word was with God...but, as we said before, because having personally united man’s nature to himself...” Cyril of Alexandria, To Nestorius, Epistle 17:11 (A.D. 430).

“If anyone will not confess that the Emmanuel is very God, and that therefore the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God (Theotokos), inasmuch as in the flesh she bore the Word of God made flesh [as it is written, ‘The Word was made flesh’: let him be anathema.” Council of Ephesus, Anathemas Against Nestorius, I (A.D. 430).

“For by the singular gift of Him who is our Lord and God, and withal, her own son, she is to be confessed most truly and most blessedly—The mother of God ‘Theotocos,’ but not in the sense in which it is imagined by a certain impious heresy which maintains, that she is to be called the Mother of God for no other reason than because she gave birth to that man who afterwards became God, just as we speak of a woman as the mother of a priest, or the mother of a bishop, meaning that she was such, not by giving birth to one already a priest or a bishop, but by giving birth to one who afterwards became a priest or a bishop. Not thus, I say, was the holy Mary ‘Theotocos,’ the mother of God, but rather, as was said before, because in her sacred womb was wrought that most sacred mystery whereby, on account of the singular and unique unity of Person, as the Word in flesh is flesh, so Man in God is God.” Vincent of Lerins, Commonitory for the Antiquity and Universality of the Catholic Faith, 15 (A.D. 434).

“So then He was both in all things and above all things and also dwelt in the womb of the holy Mother of God, but in it by the energy of the incarnation.” John Damascene, Source of Knowledge, III:7 (A.D. 743).

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II. Mary’s Immaculate Conception

“He was the ark formed of incorruptible wood. For by this is signified that His tabernacle was exempt from putridity and corruption.” Hippolytus, Orations Inillud, Dominus pascit me (ante A.D. 235).

“This Virgin Mother of the Only-begotten of God, is called Mary, worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, one of the one.” Origen, Homily 1(A.D. 244).

“Let woman praise Her, the pure Mary.” Ephraim, Hymns on the Nativity, 15:23 (A.D. 370).

“Thou alone and thy Mother are in all things fair, there is no flaw in thee and no stain in thy Mother.” Ephraem, Nisibene Hymns, 27:8 (A.D. 370).

“O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the Ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides.” Athanasius, Homily of the Papyrus of Turin, 71:216 (ante AD 373).

“Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a Virgin whom grace has made inviolate, free of every stain of sin.” Ambrose, Sermon 22:30 (A.D. 388).

“We must except the Holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom I wish to raise no question when it touches the subject of sins, out of honour to the Lord; for from Him we know what abundance of grace for overcoming sin in every particular was conferred upon her who had the merit to conceive and bear Him who undoubtedly had no sin.” Augustine, Nature and Grace,4 2[36] (A.D.415).

“As he formed her without my stain of her own, so He proceeded from her contracting no stain.” Proclus of Constantinople, Homily 1 (ante A.D. 446).

“A virgin, innocent, spotless, free of all defect, untouched, unsullied, holy in soul and body, like a lily sprouting among thorns.” Theodotus of Ancrya, Homily VI:11(ante A.D. 446).

“The angel took not the Virgin from Joseph, but gave her to Christ, to whom she was pledged from Joseph, but gave her to Christ, to whom she was pledged in the womb, when she was made.” Peter Chrysologus, Sermon 140 (A.D. 449).

“[T]he very fact that God has elected her proves that none was ever holier than Mary, if any stain had disfigured her soul, if any other virgin had been purer and holier, God would have selected her and rejected Mary.” Jacob of Sarug (ante A.D. 521).

“She is born like the cherubim, she who is of a pure, immaculate clay.” Theotokos of Livias, Panegyric for the feast of the Assumption, 5:6 (ante A.D. 650).

“Today humanity, in all the radiance of her immaculate nobility, receives its ancient beauty. The shame of sin had darkened the splendour and attraction of human nature; but when the Mother of the Fair One par excellence is born, this nature regains in her person its ancient privileges and is fashioned according to a perfect model truly worthy of God.... The reform of our nature begins today and the aged world, subjected to a wholly divine transformation, receives the first fruits of the second creation.” Andrew of Crete, Sermon I, On the Birth of Mary (A.D. 733).

“[T]ruly elect, and superior to all, not by the altitude of lofty structures, but as excelling all in the greatness and purity of sublime and divine virtues, and having no affinity with sin whatever.” Germanus of Constantinople, Marracci in S. Germani Mariali (ante A.D. 733).

“O most blessed loins of Joachim from which came forth a spotless seed! O glorious womb of Anne in which a most holy offspring grew.” John of Damascus, Homily I (ante A.D. 749).

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III. Mary is Ever-virgin

“And indeed it was a virgin, about to marry once for all after her delivery, who gave birth to Christ, in order that each title of sanctity might be fulfilled in Christ’s parentage, by means of a mother who was both virgin, and wife of one husband. Again, when He is presented as an infant in the temple, who is it who receives Him into his hands? Who is the first to recognize Him in spirit? A man just and circumspect,’ and of course no digamist, (which is plain) even (from this consideration), lest (otherwise) Christ should presently be more worthily preached by a woman, an aged widow, and the wife of one man;’ who, living devoted to the temple, was (already) giving in her own person a sufficient token what sort of persons ought to be the adherents to the spiritual temple,—that is, the Church. Such eye-witnesses the Lord in infancy found; no different ones had He in adult age.” Tertullian, On Monogamy, 8 (A.D. 213).

“For if Mary, as those declare who with sound mind extol her, had no other son but Jesus, and yet Jesus says to His mother, Woman, behold thy son,’ and not Behold you have this son also,’ then He virtually said to her, Lo, this is Jesus, whom thou didst bear.’ Is it not the case that every one who is perfect lives himself no longer, but Christ lives in him; and if Christ lives in him, then it is said of him to Mary, Behold thy son Christ.’ What a mind, then, must we have to enable us to interpret in a worthy manner this work, though it be committed to the earthly treasure-house of common speech, of writing which any passer-by can read, and which can be heard when read aloud by any one who lends to it his bodily ears?” Origen, Commentary on John, I:6 (A.D. 232).

“Therefore let those who deny that the Son is from the Father by nature and proper to His Essence, deny also that He took true human flesh of Mary Ever-Virgin; for in neither case had it been of profit to us men, whether the Word were not true and naturally Son of God, or the flesh not true which He assumed.” Athanasius, Orations against the Arians, II:70 (A.D. 362).

“And when he had taken her, he knew her not, till she had brought forth her first-born Son.’ He hath here used the word till,’ not that thou shouldest suspect that afterwards he did know her, but to inform thee that before the birth the Virgin was wholly untouched by man. But why then, it may be said, hath he used the word, till’? Because it is usual in Scripture often to do this, and to use this expression without reference to limited times. For so with respect to the ark likewise, it is said, The raven returned not till the earth was dried up.’ And yet it did not return even after that time. And when discoursing also of God, the Scripture saith, From age until age Thou art,’ not as fixing limits in this case. And again when it is preaching the Gospel beforehand, and saying, In his days shall righteousness flourish, and abundance of peace, till the moon be taken away,’ it doth not set a limit to this fair part of creation. So then here likewise, it uses the word “till,” to make certain what was before the birth, but as to what follows, it leaves thee to make the inference.” John Chrysostom, Gospel of Matthew, V:5 (A.D. 370).

“Thus, what it was necessary for thee to learn of Him, this He Himself hath said; that the Virgin was untouched by man until the birth; but that which both was seen to be a consequence of the former statement, and was acknowledged, this in its turn he leaves for thee to perceive; namely, that not even after this, she having so become a mother, and having been counted worthy of a new sort of travail, and a child-bearing so strange, could that righteous man ever have endured to know her. For if he had known her, and had kept her in the place of a wife, how is it that our Lord commits her, as unprotected, and having no one, to His disciple, and commands him to take her to his own home? How then, one may say, are James and the others called His brethren? In the same kind of way as Joseph himself was supposed to be husband of Mary. For many were the veils provided, that the birth, being such as it was, might be for a time screened. Wherefore even John so called them, saying, For neither did His brethren believe in Him.’ John Chrysostom, Gospel of Matthew, V:5 (A.D. 370).

“But those who by virginity have desisted from this process have drawn within themselves the boundary line of death, and by their own deed have checked his advance; they have made themselves, in fact, a frontier between life and death, and a barrier too, which thwarts him. If, then, death cannot pass beyond virginity, but finds his power checked and shattered there, it is demonstrated that virginity is a stronger thing than death; and that body is rightly named undying which does not lend its service to a dying world, nor brook to become the instrument of a succession of dying creatures. In such a body the long unbroken career of decay and death, which has intervened between the first man and the lives of virginity which have been led, is interrupted. It could not be indeed that death should cease working as long as the human race by marriage was working too; he walked the path of life with all preceding generations; he started with every new-born child and accompanied it to the end: but he found in virginity a barrier, to pass which was an impossible feat.” Gregory of Nyssa, On Virginity, 13 (A.D. 371).

“[T]he Son of God...was born perfectly of the holy ever-virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit...” Epiphanius, Well Anchored Man, 120 (A.D. 374).

“The friends of Christ do not tolerate hearing that the Mother of God ever ceased to be a virgin” Basil, Homily In Sanctum Christi generationem, 5 (ante A.D. 379).

“But as we do not deny what is written, so we do reject what is not written. We believe that God was born of the Virgin, because we read it. That Mary was married after she brought forth, we do not believe, because we do not read it. Nor do we say this to condemn marriage, for virginity itself is the fruit of marriage; but because when we are dealing with saints we must not judge rashly. If we adopt possibility as the standard of judgment, we might maintain that Joseph had several wives because Abraham had, and so had Jacob, and that the Lord’s brethren were the issue of those wives, an invention which some hold with a rashness which springs from audacity not from piety. You say that Mary did not continue a virgin: I claim still more, that Joseph himself on account of Mary was a virgin, so that from a virgin wedlock a virgin son was born. For if as a holy man he does not come under the imputation of fornication, and it is nowhere written that he had another wife, but was the guardian of Mary whom he was supposed to have to wife rather than her husband, the conclusion is that he who was thought worthy to be called father of the Lord, remained a virgin.” Jerome, The Perpetual Virginity of Mary Against Helvedius, 21 (A.D. 383).

“Imitate her, holy mothers, who in her only dearly beloved Son set forth so great an example of maternal virtue; for neither have you sweeter children, nor did the Virgin seek the consolation of being able to bear another son.” Ambrose, To the Christian at Vercellae, Letter 63:111 (A.D. 396).

“Her virginity also itself was on this account more pleasing and accepted, in that it was not that Christ being conceived in her, rescued it beforehand from a husband who would violate it, Himself to preserve it; but, before He was conceived, chose it, already dedicated to God, as that from which to be born. This is shown by the words which Mary spake in answer to the Angel announcing to her conception; How,’ saith she, shall this be, seeing I know not a man?’ Which assuredly she would not say, unless she had before vowed herself unto God as a virgin. But, because the habits of the Israelites as yet refused this, she was espoused to a just man, who would not take from her by violence, but rather guard against violent persons, what she had already vowed. Although, even if she had said this only, How shall this take place ?’ and had not added, seeing I know not a man,’ certainly she would not have asked, how, being a female, she should give birth to her promised Son, if she had married with purpose of sexual intercourse. She might have been bidden also to continue a virgin, that in her by fitting miracle the Son of God should receive the form of a servant, but, being to be a pattern to holy virgins, lest it should be thought that she alone needed to be a virgin, who had obtained to conceive a child even without sexual intercourse, she dedicated her virginity to God, when as yet she knew not what she should conceive, in order that the imitation of a heavenly life in an earthly and mortal body should take place of vow, not of command; through love of choosing, not through necessity of doing service. Thus Christ by being born of a virgin, who, before she knew Who was to be born of her, had determined to continue a virgin, chose rather to approve, than to command, holy virginity. And thus, even in the female herself, in whom He took the form of a servant, He willed that virginity should be free.” Augustine, Of Holy Virginity, 4 (A.D. 401).

“Where are they who think that the Virgin’s conception and giving birth to her child are to be likened to those of other woman? For, this latter case is one of the earth, and the Virgin’s is one from heaven. The one case is a case of divine power; the other of human weakness. The one case occurs in a body subject to passion; the other in the tranquility of the divine Spirit and peace of the human body. The blood was still, and the flesh astonished; her members were put at rest, and her entire womb was quiescent during the visit of the Holy One, until the Author of flesh could take on His garment of flesh, and until He, who was not merely to restore the earth to man but also to give him heaven, could become a heavenly Man. The virgin conceives, the Virgin brings forth her child, and she remains a virgin.” Peter Chrysoslogus, Sermon 117, (A.D. 432).

“And by a new nativity He was begotten, conceived by a Virgin, born of a Virgin, without paternal desire, without injury to the mother’s chastity: because such a birth as knew no taint of human flesh, became One who was to be the Saviour of men, while it possessed in itself the nature of human substance. For when God was born in the flesh, God Himself was the Father, as the archangel witnessed to the Blessed Virgin Mary: because the Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee: and therefore, that which shall be born of thee shall be called holy, the Son of God.’ The origin is different but the nature like: not by intercourse with man but by the power of God was it brought about: for a Virgin conceived, a Virgin bare, and a Virgin she remained.” Pope Leo the Great (regn. A.D. 440-461), On the Feast of the Nativity, Sermon 22:2 (ante A.D. 461).

“The ever-virgin One thus remains even after the birth still virgin, having never at any time up till death consorted with a man. For although it is written, And knew her not till she had brought forth her first-born Son, yet note that he who is first-begotten is first-born even if he is only-begotten. For the word first-born’ means that he was born first but does not at all suggest the birth of others. And the word till’ signifies the limit of the appointed time but does not exclude the time thereafter. For the Lord says, And lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world, not meaning thereby that He will be separated from us after the completion of the age. The divine apostle, indeed, says, And so shall we ever be with the Lord, meaning after the general resurrection.” John of Damascus, Orthodox Faith, 4:14 (A.D. 743).

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IV. Mary’s Assumption into Heaven

“If the Holy Virgin had died and was buried, her falling asleep would have been surrounded with honour, death would have found her pure, and her crown would have been a virginal one...Had she been martyred according to what is written: ‘Thine own soul a sword shall pierce’, then she would shine gloriously among the martyrs, and her holy body would have been declared blessed; for by her, did light come to the world.”
Epiphanius, Panarion, 78:23 (A.D. 377).

“[T]he Apostles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb; and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold, again the Lord stood by them; and the holy body having been received, He commanded that it be taken in a cloud into paradise: where now, rejoined to the soul, [Mary] rejoices with the Lord’s chosen ones...” Gregory of Tours, Eight Books of Miracles, 1:4 (inter A.D. 575-593).

“As the most glorious Mother of Christ, our Savior and God and the giver of life and immortality, has been endowed with life by him, she has received an eternal incorruptibility of the body together with him who has raised her up from the tomb and has taken her up to himself in a way known only to him.” Modestus of Jerusalem, Encomium in dormitionnem Sanctissimae Dominae nostrae Deiparae semperque Virginis Mariae (PG 86-II,3306),(ante A.D. 634).

“It was fitting ...that the most holy-body of Mary, God-bearing body, receptacle of God, divinised, incorruptible, illuminated by divine grace and full glory ...should be entrusted to the earth for a little while and raised up to heaven in glory, with her soul pleasing to God.” Theoteknos of Livias, Homily on the Assumption (ante A.D. 650).

“You are she who, as it is written, appears in beauty, and your virginal body is all holy, all chaste, entirely the dwelling place of God, so that it is henceforth completely exempt from dissolution into dust. Though still human, it is changed into the heavenly life of incorruptibility, truly living and glorious, undamaged and sharing in perfect life.” Germanus of Constantinople, Sermon I (PG 98,346), (ante A.D. 733).

“St. Juvenal, Bishop of Jerusalem, at the Council of Chalcedon (451), made known to the Emperor Marcian and Pulcheria, who wished to possess the body of the Mother of God, that Mary died in the presence of all the Apostles, but that her tomb, when opened upon the request of St. Thomas, was found empty; wherefrom the Apostles concluded that the body was taken up to heaven.” John of Damascene, PG (96:1) (A.D. 747-751).

“It was fitting that the she, who had kept her virginity intact in childbirth, should keep her own body free from all corruption even after death. It was fitting that she, who had carried the Creator as a child at her breast, should dwell in the divine tabernacles. It was fitting that the spouse, whom the Father had taken to himself, should live in the divine mansions. It was fitting that she, who had seen her Son upon the cross and who had thereby received into her heart the sword of sorrow which she had escaped when giving birth to him, should look upon him as he sits with the Father, It was fitting that God’s Mother should possess what belongs to her Son, and that she should be honored by every creature as the Mother and as the handmaid of God.” John of Damascene, Dormition of Mary (PG 96,741), (ante A.D. 749).

“Venerable to us, O Lord, is the festivity of this day on which the holy Mother of God suffered temporal death, but still could not be kept down by the bonds of death, who has begotten Thy Son our Lord incarnate from herself.” Gregorian Sacramentary, Veneranda (ante A.D. 795).

“[A]n effable mystery all the more worthy of praise as the Virgin’s Assumption is something unique among men.” Gallican Sacramentary, from Munificentis simus Deus (8th Century).

“God, the King of the universe, has granted you favors that surpass nature. As he kept you virgin in childbirth, thus he kept your body incorrupt in the tomb and has glorified it by his divine act of transferring it from the tomb.” Byzantine Liturgy, from Munificentis simus Deus (8th Century).

“[T]he virgin is up to now immortal, as He who lived, translated her into the place of reception.” Timotheus of Jerusalem (8th Century).

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V. Mary is the New Eve and Most Blessed Among Women

“There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first possible and then impossible, even Jesus Christ our Lord.” Ignatius, To the Ephesians, 7 (c. A.D. 110).

“[T]hey blessed her, saying: O God of our fathers, bless this child, and give her an everlasting name to be named in all generations. And all the people said: So be it, so be it, amen. And he brought her to the chief priests; and they blessed her, saying: O God most high, look upon this child, and bless her with the utmost blessing, which shall be for ever.” Protoevangelium of John, 6:2 (A.D. 150).

“He became man by the Virgin, in order that the disobedience which proceeded from the serpent might receive its destruction in the same manner in which it derived its origin. For Eve, who was a virgin and undefiled, having conceived the word of the serpent, brought forth disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy, when the angel Gabriel announced the good tidings to her that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her, and the power of the Highest would overshadow her: wherefore also the Holy Thing begotten of her is the Son of God; and she replied, ‘Be it unto me according to thy word.’ And by her has He been born, to whom we have proved so many Scriptures refer, and by whom God destroys both the serpent and those angels and men who are like him; but works deliverance from death to those who repent of their wickedness and believe upon Him.” Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 100 (A.D. 155).

“[H]e was born of Mary the fair ewe.” Melito de Sardo, Easter Homily (c. A.D. 177).

“In accordance with this design, Mary the Virgin is found obedient, saying, ‘Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word.’ But Eve was disobedient; for she did not obey when as yet she was a virgin. And even as she, having indeed a husband, Adam, but being nevertheless as yet a virgin (for in Paradise ‘they were both naked, and were not ashamed,’ inasmuch as they, having been created a short time previously, had no understanding of the procreation of children: for it was necessary that they should first come to adult age, and then multiply from that time onward), having become disobedient, was made the cause of death, both to herself and to the entire human race; so also did Mary, having a man betrothed [to her], and being nevertheless a virgin, by yielding obedience, become the cause of salvation, both to herself and the whole human race. And on this account does the law term a woman betrothed to a man, the wife of him who had betrothed her, although she was as yet a virgin; thus indicating the back-reference from Mary to Eve, because what is joined together could not otherwise be put asunder than by inversion of the process by which these bonds of union had arisen; s so that the former ties be cancelled by the latter, that the latter may set the former again at liberty… Wherefore also Luke, commencing the genealogy with the Lord, carried it back to Adam, indicating that it was He who regenerated them into the Gospel of life, and not they Him. And thus also it was that the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. For what the virgin Eve had bound fast through unbelief, this did the virgin Mary set free through faith.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3:22 (A.D. 180).

“For whereas the Word of God was without flesh, He took upon Himself the holy flesh by the holy Virgin, and prepared a robe which He wove for Himself, like a bridegroom, in the sufferings of the cross, in order that by uniting His own power with our moral body, and by mixing the incorruptible with the corruptible, and the strong with the weak, He might save perishing man.” Hippolytus, Treatise on Christ and antiChrist, 4 (A.D. 200).

“But the Lord Christ, the fruit of the Virgin, did not pronounce the breasts of women blessed, nor selected them to give nourishment; but when the kind and loving Father had rained down the Word, Himself became spiritual nourishment to the good. O mystic marvel! The universal Father is one, and one the universal Word; and the Holy Spirit is one and the same everywhere, and one is the only virgin mother. I love to call her the Church. This mother, when alone, had not milk, because alone she was not a woman. But she is once virgin and mother—pure as a virgin, loving as a mother. And calling her children to her, she nurses them with holy milk, viz., with the Word for childhood. Therefore she had not milk; for the milk was this child fair and comely, the body of Christ, which nourishes by the Word the young brood, which the Lord Himself brought forth in throes of the flesh, which the Lord Himself swathed in His precious blood.” Clement of Alexandria, The Instructor, I:6 (A.D.202).

“Accordingly, a virgin did conceive and bear ‘Emmanuel, God with us.’ This is the new nativity; a man is born in God. And in this man God was born, taking the flesh of an ancient race, without the help, however, of the ancient seed, in order that He might reform it with a new seed, that is, in a spiritual manner, and cleanse it by the re-moral of all its ancient stains. But the whole of this new birth was prefigured, as was the case in all other instances, in ancient type, the Lord being born as man by a dispensation in which a virgin was the medium. The earth was still in a virgin state, reduced as yet by no human labour, with no seed as yet cast into its furrows, when, as we are told, God made man out of it into a living soul…For it was while Eve was yet a virgin, that the ensnaring word had crept into her ear which was to build the edifice of death. Into a virgin’s soul, in like manner, must be introduced that Word of God which was to raise the fabric of life; so that what had been reduced to ruin by this sex, might by the selfsame sex be recovered to salvation. As Eve had believed the serpent, so Mary believed the angel. The delinquency which the one occasioned by believing, the other by believing effaced. But (it will be said) Eve did not at the devil’s word conceive in her womb. Well, she at all events conceived; for the devil’s word afterwards became as seed to her that she should conceive as an outcast, and bring forth in sorrow. Indeed she gave birth to a fratricidal devil; whilst Mary, on the contrary, bare one who was one day to secure salvation to Israel, His own brother after the flesh, and the murderer of Himself. God therefore sent down into the virgin’s womb His Word, as the good Brother, who should blot out the memory of the evil brother. Hence it was necessary that Christ should come forth for the salvation of man, in that condition of flesh into which man had entered ever since his condemnation.” Tertullian, Flesh of Christ, 17 (A.D. 212).

“And I think it in harmony with reason that Jesus was the first-fruit among men of the purity which consists in chastity, and Mary among women; for it were not pious to ascribe to any other than to her the first-fruit of virginity.” Origen, Commentary on Matthew, 10:17 (A.D. 244).

“Many, my beloved, are the true testimonies concerning Christ. The Father bears witness from heaven of His Son: the Holy Ghost bears witness, descending bodily in likeness of a dove: the Archangel Gabriel bears witness, bringing good tidings to Mary: the Virgin Mother of God [Theotokos] bears witness: the blessed place of the manger bears witness” Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 10:19 (A.D. 350).

“In what remains we have the appointment of the Father’s will. The Virgin, the birth, the Body, then the Cross, the death, the visit to the lower world; these things are our salvation. For the sake of mankind the Son of God was born of tile Virgin and of the Holy Ghost. In this process He ministered to Himself; by His own power—the power of God—which overshadowed her He sowed the beginning of His Body, and entered on the first stage of His life in the flesh. He did it that by His Incarnation He might take to Himself from the Virgin the fleshly nature, and that through this commingling there might come into being a hallowed Body of all humanity; that so through that Body which He was pleased to assume all mankind might be hid in Him, and He in return, through His unseen existence, be reproduced in all. Thus the invisible Image of God scorned not the shame which marks the beginnings of human life. He passed through every stage; through conception, birth, wailing, cradle and each successive humiliation. What worthy return can we make for so great a condescension? The One Only-begotten God, ineffably born of God, entered the Virgin’s womb and grew and took the frame of poor humanity. He Who upholds the universe, within Whom and through Whom are all things, was brought forth by common childbirth; He at Whose voice Archangels and Angels tremble, and heaven and earth and all the elements of this world are melted, was heard in childish wailing. The Invisible and Incomprehensible, Whom sight and feeling and touch cannot gauge, was wrapped in a cradle.” Hilary of Poitiers, On the Trinity, 2:24-25 (A.D. 355).

“And as the grace of the Triad is one, so also the Triad is indivisible. We can see this in regard to Saint Mary herself. The archangel Gabriel when sent to announce the coming of the Word upon her said, ‘The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee’, knowing that the Spirit was in the Word. Wherefore he added: ‘and the Power of the Highest shall overshadow thee.’” Athanasius, To Serapion of Thmuis, III:6 (A.D. 360).

“And when he had taken her, ‘he knew her not, till she had brought forth her first-born Son.’ He hath here used the word ‘till,’ not that thou shouldest suspect that afterwards he did know her, but to inform thee that before the birth the Virgin was wholly untouched by man.” John Chrysostom, Homily on Matthew, 5:5 (A.D. 370).

“It was, to divulge by the manner of His Incarnation this great secret; that purity is the only complete indication of the presence of God and of His coming, and that no one can in reality secure this for himself, unless he has altogether estranged himself from the passions of the flesh. What happened in the stainless Mary when the fullness of the Godhead which was in Christ shone out through her, that happens in every soul that leads by rule the virgin life.” Gregory of Nyssa, On Virginity, 2 (A.D. 371).

“Thou alone and thy Mother are in all things fair; for there is no flaw in thee and no stain in thy Mother. Of these two fair ones, to whom are my children similar?” Ephraem, Nisbene Hymns, 27:8 (ante A.D. 373).

“Whoever honors the Lord also honors the holy [vessel]; who instead dishonors the holy vessel also dishonors his Master. Mary herself is that holy Virgin, that is, the holy vessel” Epiphanius, Panarion, 78:21 (A.D. 377).

“And if the God-bearing flesh was not ordained to be assumed of the lump of Adam, what need was there of the Holy Virgin?” Basil, To the Sozopolitans, Epistle 261 (A.D. 377).

“The first thing which kindles ardour in learning is the greatness of the teacher. What is greater than the Mother of God? What more glorious than she whom Glory Itself chose? What more chaste than she who bore a body without contact with another body? For why should I speak of her other virtues? She was a virgin not only in body but also in mind, who stained the sincerity of its disposition by no guile, who was humble in heart, grave in speech, prudent in mind, sparing of words, studious in reading, resting her hope not on uncertain riches, but on the prayer of the poor, intent on work, modest in discourse; wont to seek not man but God as the judge of her thoughts, to injure no one, to have goodwill towards all, to rise up before her elders, not to envy her equals, to avoid boastfulness, to follow reason, to love virtue.” Ambrose, On Virginity, 2:15 (A.D. 377).

“Recalling these and other circumstances and imploring the Virgin Mary to bring assistance, since she, too, was a virgin and had been in danger, she entrusted herself to the remedy of fasting and sleeping on the ground.” Gregory of Nazianzen, Oration 24:11 (A.D. 379).

“If anyone does not believe that Holy Mary is the Mother of God, he is severed from the Godhead. If anyone should assert that He passed through the Virgin as through a channel, and was not at once divinely and humanly formed in her (divinely, because without the intervention of a man; humanly, because in accordance with the laws of gestation), he is in like manner godless.” Gregory of Nazianzen, To Cledonius, Epistle 101 (A.D. 382).

” ‘There shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a flower shall grow out of his roots.’ The rod is the mother of the Lord—simple, pure, unsullied; drawing no germ of life from without but fruitful in singleness like God Himself...Set before you the blessed Mary, whose surpassing purity made her meet to be the mother of the Lord.” Jerome, To Eustochium, Epistle 22:19,38 (A.D. 384).

“We must except the holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom I wish to raise no question when it touches the subject of sins, out of honour to the Lord; for from Him we know what abundance of grace for overcoming sin in every particular was conferred upon her who had the merit to conceive and bear Him who undoubtedly had no sin.” Augustine, Nature and Grace, 36:42 (A.D. 415).

“Hail, Mary, you are the most precious creature in the whole world; hail, Mary, uncorrupt dove; hail, Mary, inextinguishable lamp; for from you was born the Sun of justice...through you, every faithful soul achieves salvation.” Cyril of Alexandria, Homily 11 at Ephesus (A.D. 431).

“If anyone will not confess that the Emmanuel is very God, and that therefore the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God (theotokos), inasmuch as in the flesh she bore the Word of God made flesh [as it is written, ‘The Word was made flesh’ let him be anathema.” Council of Ephesus [Cyril’s Epistle 17], Anathema I (A.D. 431).

“A Virgin conceived, a Virgin bore, and a Virgin she remains.” Peter Chyrsologus, Sermon 117 (post A.D. 432).

“And by a new nativity He was begotten, conceived by a Virgin, born of a Virgin, without paternal desire, without injury to the mother’s chastity: because such a birth as knew no taint of human flesh, became One who was to be the Saviour of men, while it possessed in itself the nature of human substance. For when God was born in the flesh, God Himself was the Father, as the archangel witnessed to the Blessed Virgin Mary: ‘because the Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee: and therefore, that which shall be born of thee shall be called holy, the Son of God.’ The origin is different but the nature like: not by intercourse with man but by the power of God was it brought about: for a Virgin conceived, a Virgin bare, and a Virgin she remained…For the uncorrupt nature of Him that was born had to guard the primal virginity of the Mother, and the infused power of the Divine Spirit had to preserve in spotlessness and holiness that sanctuary which He had chosen for Himself: that Spirit (I say) who had determined to raise the fallen, to restore the broken, and by overcoming the allurements of the flesh to bestow on us in abundant measure the power of chastity: in order that the virginity which in others cannot be retained in child-bearing, might be attained by them at their second birth.” Pope Leo the Great [regn. A.D. 440-461], in Sermon 22:2 (ante A.D. 461).

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VI. Mary is our Powerful Intercessor

“For as Eve was seduced by the word of an angel to flee from God, having rebelled against His Word, so Mary by the word of an angel received the glad tidings that she would bear God by obeying his Word. The former was seduced to disobey God, but the latter was persuaded to obey God, so that the Virgin Mary might become the advocate of the virgin Eve. As the human race was subjected to death through [the act of] a virgin, so it was saved by a virgin.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V:19,1 (A.D. 180).

“Under your mercy we take refuge, O Mother of God. Do not reject our supplications in necessity, but deliver us from danger,[O you] alone pure and alone blessed.” Sub Tuum Praesidium, From Rylands Papyrus, Egypt (3rd century).

“Let, then, the life of Mary be as it were virginity itself, set forth in a likeness, from which, as from a mirror, the appearance of chastity and the form of virtue is reflected.... Nor would I hesitate to admit you to the altars of God, whose souls I would without hesitation call altars, on which Christ is daily offered for the redemption of the body. For if the virgin’s body be a temple of God, what is her soul, which, the ashes, as it were, of the body being shaken off, once more uncovered by the hand of the Eternal Priest, exhales the vapor of the divine fire. Blessed virgins, who emit a fragrance through divine grace as gardens do through flowers, temples through religion, altars through the priest.” Ambrose, On Virginity II:6,18 (A.D. 378).

“Recalling these and other circumstances and imploring the Virgin Mary to bring assistance, since she, too, was a virgin and had been in danger, she entrusted herself to the remedy of fasting and sleeping on the ground.” Gregory of Nazianzen, Oration 24:11 (A.D. 379).

“For it is said that he [Gregory the Wonderworker] heard the one who had appeared in womanly form exhorting John the Evangelist to explain to the young man the mystery of the true faith. John, in his turn, declared that he was completely willing to please the Mother of the Lord even in this matter and this was the one thing closest to his heart. And so the discussion coming to a close, and after they had made it quite clear and precise for him, the two disappeared from his sight.” Gregory of Nyssa, On Gregory the WonderWorker (A.D. 380).

“Mary, the holy Virgin, is truly great before God and men. For how shall we not proclaim her great, who held within her the uncontainable One, whom neither heaven nor earth can contain?” Epiphanius, Panarion, 30:31 (ante A.D. 403).

“Give milk, Mother to him who is our food, give milk to the bread coming down from heaven ...give milk to him who made you such that he could be made fruitfulness in conception and in birth, did not take from you the ornament of virginity.” Augustine, Sermon 369:1 (A.D. 430).

“Hail to thee Mary, Mother of God, to whom in towns and villages and in island were founded churches of true believers.” Cyril of Alexandria, Homily 11 (ante A.D. 444).

“Hail, our desirable gladness; Hail, O rejoicing of the Churches; Hail, O name that breathes out sweetness; Hail, face that radiates divinity and grace; Hail, most venerable memory…” Theodotus of Ancrya, Homily 4:3 (ante A.D. 446).

“The Virgin’s festival (parthenike panegyris) incites our tongue today to herald her praise ...handmaid and Mother, Virgin and heaven, the only bridge of God to men, the awful loom of the Incarnation, in which by some unspeakable way the garment of that union was woven, whereof the weaver is the Holy Ghost; and the spinner the overshadowing from on high; the wool the ancient fleece of Adam; the woof the undefiled flesh from the virgin, the weaver’s shuttle the immense grace of Him who brought it about; the artificer the Word gliding through the hearing.” Proclus of Constantinople, Homily 1 (ante A.D. 446).

“The Virgin received Salvation so that she may give it back to the centuries.” Peter Chrysologus, Sermon 140 (ante A.D. 450).

“O Virgin all holy, he who has said of you all that is honorable and glorious has not sinned against the truth, but remains unequal to your merit. Look down upon us from above and be propitious to us. Lead us in peace and having brought us without shame to the throne of judgment, grant us a place at the right hand of your Son, that we may borne off to heaven and sing with angels to the uncreated, consubstantial Trinity. “ Basil of Seleucia, PG 85:452 (ante A.D. 459).

“Cease your laments; I will make myself your advocate in my Son’s presence. Meanwhile, no more sadness, because I have brought joy to the world. For it is to destroy the kingdom of sorrow that I have come into the world: I full of grace ... Then curb your tears; accept me as your mediatrix in the presence of him who was born from me, because the author of joy is the God generated before all ages. Remain calm; be troubled no longer: I come from him, full of grace.” Romanos the Singer, On Christmas 2,10-11 (ante A.D. 560).

“Raised to heaven, she remains for the human race an unconquerable rampart, interceding for us before her Son and God.” Theoteknos of Livias, Assumption 291(ante A.D. 560).

“Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, because thou didst conceive Christ, the Son of God, the Redeemer of our souls.” Coptic Ostraca (A.D. 600).

“Mary the Ever-Virgin — radiant with divine light and full of grace, mediatrix first through her supernatural birth and now because of the intercession of her maternal assistance — be crowned with never ending blessings ...seeking balance and fittingness in all things, we should make our way honestly, as sons of light.” Germanus of Constantinople, Homily on the Liberation of Constantinople, 23 (ante A.D. 733).

“O, how marvelous it is! She acts as a mediatrix between the loftiness of God and the lowliness of the flesh, and becomes Mother of the Creator.” Andrew of Crete, Homily 1 on Mary’s Nativity (ante A.D. 740).

“She is all beautiful, all near to God. For she, surpassing the cherubim. Exalted beyond the seraphim, is placed near to God.” John of Damascene, Homily on the Nativity, 9 (ante A.D. 749).

“We today also remain near you, O Lady. Yes, I repeat, O Lady, Mother of God and Virgin. We bind our souls to your hope, as to a most firm and totally unbreakable anchor, consecrating to you mind, soul, body, and all our being and honoring you, as much as we can, with psalms, hymns, and spiritual canticles.” John of Damascene, Homily 1 on the Dormition, 14 (ante A.D. 749).

“Let us entrust ourselves with all our soul’s affection to the intercession of the Blessed Virgin: let us all, with all our strength, beg her patronage, that, at the moment when on earth we surround her with our suppliant homage, she herself may deign in heaven to commend us with fervent prayer. For without any doubt she who merited to bring ransom for those who needed deliverance, can more than all the saints benefit by her favor those who have received deliverance.” Ambrose Autpert, Assumption of the Virgin, (ante A.D. 778).

“Let us approach with confident spirit the throne of the high Priest, where he is our victim, priest, advocate and judge.” Radbert Paschasius, On the Assumption (ante A.D. 786).

“For she who brought forth the source of mercy, Jesus Christ, our God and Lord, receiving from him all things, will and through him, grant the wishes of all.” Paul the Deacon, (ante A.D. 799).

“You scatter your favors with still greater abundance since you possess more fully him who is their source and who is entirely willing to give them to us, rather you possess almost everything by yourself and you show largesse to whom you will and to him who begs it of you.” John the Geometer, Life of Mary (A.D. 989).

“May we deserve to have the help of your intercession in heaven, because as the Son of God has deigned to descend to us through you, so we also must come to him with you.” Peter Damian, (ante A.D. 1072).

“The Mother of God is our mother. May the good mother ask and beg for us, may she request and obtain what is good for us.” Anselm, Oration 7(ante A.D. 1109).

“O whoever you may be who feel yourself on the tide of this world drifting in storms and tempests rather than treading firm ground, turn not your eyes from the effulgence of this star, unless you wish to be submerged ... if she holds you, you do not fall, if she protects you, you have no fear; with her to lead you, you tire not; with her favour, you will reach your goal, conscious thus within yourself how rightly the word was spoken: ‘And the Virgin’s name was Mary.’” Bernard, Homily 2:17, Respice stellam (ante A.D. 1153).


193 posted on 02/04/2012 9:07:15 PM PST by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: johngrace

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html


194 posted on 02/04/2012 9:08:12 PM PST by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: johngrace

Source?


195 posted on 02/04/2012 9:39:40 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: johngrace

http://www.growingchristians.org/dfgc/lamb.htm


196 posted on 02/04/2012 9:46:49 PM PST by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: Religion Moderator

Thanks for reminding! I just posted! I have been multitasking in the House! LOL!!Thanks!


197 posted on 02/04/2012 9:49:23 PM PST by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: johngrace

Jesus honors His mothers without making her into a demigoddess above that which is written, and your attempts to justify making her the mighty Mother of God and a perpetually sinless virgin who is ascended to Heaven and enthroned as Queen of Heaven with almost unlimited power and having the ability and function to process virtually unlimited prayer requests are extrapolations.

I could go thru them all but not at 2am, suffice to say that the phrase “full of grace” is not a title given to Mary, but describes her blessed state, and does not suggests a unique individual perfection of grace as being sinless from a past event, anymore than Eph. 1:6 does in which the exact same word is used to describe the blessed condition of all believers.

Mary was most blessed of all women, as believers are among all mankind, because of the grace bestowed upon them, but which does not justify extrapolating an exalted state beyond what is written. And the hermeneutic that seeks to justify making doctrines of such based upon silence, as not forbidding something, is cultic.

As for the Ark being Ark is undefiled so men could not touch it less they die, it was touched by men, and if Mary had to be sinless, then the one who bore her should be also, while the Ark was holy because of what it contained, and believers have the Holy Spirit in them and are called saints.

Meanwhile, although He could have, beside many other attribute and titles give by men to Mary but not by the Holy Spirit, He also never refers to Mary as being the antitype to the O.T. Ark, which is in Heaven, (Rv. 11:9) but He does refers to Jesus tabernacling among us, (Jn. 1:14) and His body easily fufils the role of the Ark.

In addition, the Holy Spirit distinctly says the Lord Jesus also came forth by Israel, (Rm. 9:5) and that they were the stewards of revelation, (Rm. 3:2; 9:4) without being sinless, nor were the holy men thru Whom the pure word of God came. We dare not limit the Holy One of Israel. (Ps. 78:41)

As for the women clothed with the sun, some of the CFs differed on that, as does your own approved note in your official Bible, which rightly interprets this to be Israel.

All for now. Time for bed.

Scripture also records unique aspects of others, like Paul, but which are also not to be used to exalt them as Rome does with Mary.


198 posted on 02/04/2012 11:17:43 PM PST by daniel1212 (Trust in the Lord Jesus to save you as a contrite damned+morally destitute sinner + be forgiven+live)
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To: daniel1212
Good Night. Daniel.

Your Entitled to your opinion and Views from Scripture. I know better. She is no demi-god.If He is a King She is a Queen. I think you read those discussions before on these threads.

Freeper Regards!

199 posted on 02/04/2012 11:39:47 PM PST by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: johngrace
Nobody is saying that she wasn't unique. She had the privilege that only one person on the planet could have, and that is bearing the Messiah.

So, yes, she was highly favored, to do this one task she was called to do and nobody else could fulfill.

And you know, a LOT of people are in that category. God prepared works in advance for us to do, stuff that only we can do and if we don't do them, then they simply may not be done.

But that in no way excuses or justifies the adulation and titles heaped upon her. That makes people who do that respecters of person's which is clearly condemned in Scripture. We are forbidden to do that. It is a sin.

Jesus Himself told us who the greatest person to ever live was and that was John the Baptist. God's opinion, not ours.

200 posted on 02/05/2012 6:18:24 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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