Posted on 02/04/2012 6:53:17 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
I am amused by the Iamnotamormonbut, IamnotaRomneywupporterbut, Iama(insertwhateverhere)Iwill defendmormonismwithoutknowinganythingaboutitbut, IamasupporteroftheconstituionandyouarentbecauseyoudontsupportRomneybut.........
These individuals are just so gosh darn transparent.
I cited the thread in my very first statement. If this basic fact is too simple for your superior mind I am obviously incapable of making it complex enough for one so far above me to be comfortable with.
However since you say I need to “study” the Constitution and be consistent I would be more than interested to learn what flaws and inconsistencies you find in my lesson.
I would certainly benefit from your obvious expertise...
I cited the thread in my very first statement. If this basic fact is too simple for your superior mind I am obviously incapable of making it complex enough for one so far above me to be comfortable with.
However since you say I need to “study” the Constitution and be consistent I would be more than interested to learn what flaws and inconsistencies you find in my lesson.
I would certainly benefit from your obvious expertise...
i’m curious...if a black man publicly calls the mormons to account for their prophets and doctrine calling him a “dark and loathesome” member of a “cursed race”, would HE be considered bigoted, a hater, and a violator of the constitution, as you’ve accused the ex-mormons on this board who are not keeping silent about this cult?
well it doesn’t matter what ya think...we will not be moved...lol
for the benefit of cyberspace; mormonbutts avert your eyes!
____________________________
Noted African-American theologian and author calls out Mitt Romney on the Book of Mormon’s embedded doctrinal racism
Doctrine
by steve benson Jan 2011
Obery M. Hendricks, Jr., Ph.D “Yet I must admit that there is something about Mitt Romney’s religion that I find deeply troubling, particularly in light of the possibility that he could become the next president of this nation. What concerns me is this: the Book of Mormon, the book that Mitt Romney and all Mormons embrace as divinely revealed scripture that is more sacred, more true, and more inerrant than any other holy book on earth, declares that black people are cursed. That’s right. Cursed. [Native Americans are cursed in the Book of Mormon and Blacks are cursed in the Pearl of Great Price - another Mormon book of scripture]
And not only accursed, but lazy and aesthetically ugly to boot.
Obery M. Hendricks, Jr., Ph.D.—author, affiliated scholar at the Center for American Progress, trustee of the Public Religion Research Institute and Professor of Biblical Interpretation at New York Theological Seminary and Visiting Scholar in both the Department of Religion and the Institute for Research in African American Studies at Columbia University—writes the following in his article, “Mitt Romney and the Curse of Blackness”:
“When it comes to others’ choice of religions, I’m pretty much a live-and-let-live guy. In fact, I don’t believe in religious litmus tests of any kind. Frankly, I think they are self-righteous and insulting.
“I’m not talking about ascribed racism such as we see in Christianity, in which racist meanings are attributed to certain verses of the Bible that actually contain no such meanings, as with the Gen. 9:25 cursing of Canaan (not Ham!) which, though used as ‘proof’ of black wickedness and inferiority, in actuality has nothing to do with race.
“And no, I’m not talking about a single ambiguous, cherry-picked verse, either. I’d much rather that were the case. The sad truth is that the Book of Mormon says it explicitly and in numerous passages: black people are cursed by God and our dark skin is the evidence of our accursedness. Here are a few examples: [correction it refers to native Americans - but the concept is the same. Skin color is a measure of righteousness]
—”’And the Lord had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them (2 Nephi 5:21).’
—”’And I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark and loathsome and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations (1 Nephi 12:23).’
—”’O my brethren, I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought with them before the throne of God. (Jacob 3:8).’
—”’And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men (Alma 3: 6).’
“It would have been infinitely more righteous if Mormons had relegated the sentiments of these verses to the scriptural sidelines of their faith, but the historical record tells us otherwise. Joseph Smith, Jr., the founder of Mormonism, repeatedly ordered his Church to uphold all slavery laws.
“Although Smith had a change of heart toward the end of his life, his successor, Brigham Young, did not. Young instituted social and ecclesiastical segregation as the Church’s official policies, thus excluding people of black African descent from priesthood ordination and full participation in temple ceremonies, regardless of their actual skin color.
“Moreover, Brigham Young, whom Mormons revere almost equally with Smith, proved to the end of his life to be a brutal white supremacist who fervently supported the continued enslavement of African Americans; he was so convinced of black accursedness that he declared that if any Mormon had sex with a person of color, ‘the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot.’
“The Book of Mormon’s teaching of the accursedness and, therefore, the inferiority of blacks—if blacks are cursed, then by definition they are inferior to the divinely acceptable whites—was reaffirmed by numerous Mormon leaders for a century and a half.
“As late as 1969, even after the Civil Rights Movement had dismantled de jure segregation throughout the land, David O. McKay, then president and ‘living prophet’ of Mormonism, still publicly justified its segregationist policies by declaring that ‘the seeming discrimination by the Church toward the Negro . . . goes back into the beginning with God.’
“Now, some will argue that I should dismiss the codified racism of the Book of Mormon as the unfortunate folklore of a bygone era because of the 1978 revelation by Spencer W. Kimball, the Church’s president and ‘living prophet’ at that time, that after a century and a half black males were finally un-accursed enough to fully participate in Mormonism’s priesthood and sacred temple ceremonies.
“However, even if we ignore the suspiciously coincidental timing of this ‘revelation’ (it conveniently appeared when the Church’s federal tax-exempt status was imperiled by its racial policies), an attentive reading reveals that Kimball’s proclamation did not in any way address the question of whether or not the Church still considered the Book of Mormon’s assertions of black inferiority to be divinely authorized.
“In fact, the specific contents of Kimball’s revelation were never made public. Nor has the Church ever disavowed the Book’s white supremacist passages or the past racist practices and pronouncements of its leaders.
“What makes this all the more problematic for me is that at no time has Mitt Romney ever publicly indicated that he seriously questioned the divine inspiration of the Book of Mormon’s teachings about race, much less that he has repudiated them.
“It is true that in a 2008 ‘Meet the Press’ interview with the late Tim Russert, Romney did vigorously assert his belief in equal rights for all Americans in every facet of life. As part of that narrative, he cited his parents’ “tireless” advocacy for blacks’ civil rights, including the dramatic exit of his father, Michigan Governor George Romney, from the 1964 Republican convention as a protest against nominee Barry Goldwater’s racial politics.
“He also shared that he wept when he learned of Spencer Kimball’s aforementioned revelation. Yet from Romney’s remarks it is not clear whether he wept for joy because Mormonism was eschewing its segregationist policies or if he wept from relief that the announcement promised to quiet the public outrage that those policies were causing.
“And significantly, while he recited his parents’ efforts to confront racial injustice, Mitt Romney pointed to no such activities of his own.
“But let me be clear: this is not a ‘gotcha’ political ploy. In all honesty, I am neither saying nor implying in the slightest that Mitt Romney is a racist. I simply do not know that to be the case. Nor do I mean to overlook the racial progress that the Mormon Church has made in the last several decades.
“What I do mean to say is:
“—1) that Americans of goodwill owe it to ourselves not to turn a blind eye to the possible implications of the white supremacist legacy of candidate Romney’s religious tradition, no matter how noble our intentions; and
“—2) that Mitt Romney himself owes it to America to address the issue.
“Why? Because Romney was tutored into adulthood by a holy book that declares that all Americans like me are cursed by God. And he is not only a believer; he has served as a leader in his faith.
“This is indeed a crucial point for consideration because, as this nation has seen time and time again, the inevitable consequence of America’s policy-makers considering people of color as inferior to whites is that blacks’ social and material interests have also been considered inferior—and quite often treated that way.
“I admit that this question of religion and racism is quite complicated and I don’t claim to have all the answers. But I do know that recognizing the equal rights of black Americans under the law, while of paramount importance, is not the same as recognizing our intellectual capabilities and moral character as inherently equal to whites.
“And I am aware of one thing more: that when Tim Russert invited Romney to repudiate his Church’s racist legacy on Meet the Press, Romney refused.
“That is why, Mr. Romney, as an American citizen whose president you seek to become, I must insist that you honestly and forthrightly attest to me and all Americans of goodwill that you actually can be my president, too, fully and completely.
“You can accomplish this by publicly disavowing the portions of your holy book that so sorely denigrate the humanity of me, my loved ones and all people of black African descent.
“It is incumbent that you do this, candidate Romney, for the sake of all Americans.”
I have my moments...
Another simple answer for you—limiting people’s freedom or otherwise demeaning them because of their race is always wrong. I’m sure I can find ample examples of this within every faith. Ignorance, racism, and bigottry know no religious boundaries.
So, if I can find a quote from a Catholic or a Babtist, or a Freeper for that matter that demeans Mormons, then I guess we’re all even Stephen.
Why in the world would I want to advance my religion’s cause? My cause is human liberty and wisdom, which cuts across many different faiths.
Was that an IMPOSSIBLE cut&paste??
In your DREAMS!
These quotes are from high mucky-mucks in the MORMON hierarchy; NOT yer rank and file pew warmers.
The sentiments was displayed, and has NOT been countered.
I'm sorry for MORMONs that have to swallow that fact, but, it is what it is.
Then can I assume that you HAVE no religion?
Lawsone on Friday March 9, 2012
“The Church is non political”
______________________________________
and yet just FOUR days before Lawsone said that, in the Mormon religions own mormonnewsroom website reported that the mormons were instructed by a top mormon leader to get involved in politics
Mormon Apostle Encourages Civic Participation by All Citizens
Rexburg, Idaho — On Sunday Elder Quentin L. Cook, a senior leader in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon), encouraged both Church members and those not of the faith to participate in the political process wherever they live.
“We would hope that [participation in the political process] would be true of all citizens, members and nonmembers alike, in all states and all countries where elections will be held,” Elder Cook said to college-age students Sunday in a regular worldwide satellite broadcast held at Brigham Young University-Idaho. “The price of freedom has been too high and the consequences of nonparticipation are too great for any citizen to feel that they can ignore their responsibility.”
Elder Cook specifically mentioned the caucuses in Utah and Idaho for the various parties that will be held starting this week. The First Presidency recently issued a letter to be read in all Utah congregations that encourages Latter-day Saints to attend their local precinct caucus meetings. (The Church is politically neutral and does not endorse candidates or parties.)
Elder Cook also taught Latter-day Saints to develop high moral character and practice civility in daily discourse.
“Any use of the Internet to bully, destroy a reputation, or place a person in a bad light is reprehensible,” Elder Cook said. “What we are seeing in society is that when people wear the mask of anonymity, they are more likely to engage in this kind of conduct which is so destructive of civil discourse. It also violates the basic principles the Savior taught. ”
Read Elder Cook’s entire address .
Style Guide Note: When reporting about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, please use the complete name of the Church in the first reference. For more information on the use of the name of the Church, go to our online style guide.
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormon-apostle-encourages-civic-participation
and a nice photo with the caption
“Elder Cook addressed Church young adults across the globe from the BYU-Idaho Center in Rexburg, Idaho”
yes, but those theologies that have racism written into their doctrine, and accept the words of racist leaders as the will of the Almighty, deserve extra attention and exposition
examples other than the mormons who actually have racism as an article of faith are Rev. Wright's ilk, Islam in general and Farrakhan's version in specific, and several Nazi White Supremacy monstrous mutations of Christianity
having been a mormon, i know they're not monstrous racists, but if they are TBM's then they do accept the Cain story, completely, they accept that non-white races are under a curse, they even think that Caucasians who don't accept mormonism are cursed by sins from a previous life that block their ears to their message, becaue to their cult way of thinking everybody in their right mind would want to be a mormon, anyone who doesn't is afflicted with sin or the devils the magic undies are supposed to protect you against
in short, they don't hate, they just feel sorry for all of us...i attack Romney's mormonism not because it makes him evil, i attack Romney's mormonism because it makes him totally out of touch with real life
mormonism is a cult...and the only people who have problems figuring out what a cult is, seems to be people who are in one, or at least have swallowed their deceptions...
People simply reject the doctrine. It happens all the time. This is how religions gradually change over time. I would encourage people of all religions to reject all cruel, hateful, or demeaning texts and narratives—and this applies to Christians as well.
No, you can’t. But the fact that you jump to do so is quite telling.
It doesn’t matter whether it’s from a mucky muck or some high white horse souse. What you actually need to show, want to show, but can never show, is that evil, bigotry, or socks and sandals for that matter are more prevalent among Mormons than among any other religious group.
LOL
Thats why rock hammers are necessary
I would encourage people of all religions to reject all cruel, hateful, or demeaning texts and narratives—and this applies to Christians as well.
__________________________________________
So do you think “this applies to” Mormons as well ???
What about the proxy necro baptisms that Mormons do in their members only temples claiming that dead Christians benefit from a different religion ???
This obscene practice is also called “doing the templer work” or “temple ordinances”
Heres a very recent article from a MORMON website...March 2. 2012
First Presidency Issues Direction on Names Submitted for Temple Ordinances
Salt Lake City — The First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints issued a letter on 29 February reiterating policies concerning submission of names for proxy temple ordinances.
The letter will be read to all Church congregations worldwide. The letter states:
We would like to reiterate the policies first stated in 1995 concerning the submission of names for proxy temple ordinances:
Our preeminent obligation is to seek out and identify our own ancestors. Those whose names are submitted for proxy temple ordinances should be related to the submitter.
Without exception, Church members must not submit for proxy temple ordinances any names from unauthorized groups, such as celebrities and Jewish Holocaust victims. If members do so, they may forfeit their New FamilySearch privileges.
Other corrective action may also be taken.
Members are encouraged to participate in FamilySearch indexing which is vital to family history and temple work.
Bishops are asked to post this letter on their meetinghouse bulletin boards. Church members may seek the assistance of the family history consultants in their area for additional information, if needed. Name submission policies are also clearly stated on New.FamilySearch.org.
We appreciate the faithful adherence to these policies by all members of the Church.
Sincerely yours,
Thomas S. Monson
Henry B. Eyring
Dieter F. Uchtdorf
The First Presidency
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/first-presidency-issues-direction-members-names-ordinances
What part of “all religions” did you not understand?
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