Pope says arrogance drives infertility field, tells couples to shun artificial procreation

Brandon Sun ^ | February 25, 2012

[sitetest]

Dear redgolum,

I don't know, I looked up-thread and didn't see too many attackers. There is one poster claiming to be Catholic who, nonetheless, seems to consider the Magisterium lacking in any authority to teach authoritatively about much of anything. There are a couple of folks who appear to be indignant about the whole topic, but no one appears to be particularly “wounded” by Campion’s words.

And even if anyone were, objectively, there is little to criticize in his post. What he wrote was consonant with the truth, with objective reality, and it wasn't said in a hurtful way.

sitetest

[Tax-chick]

But he was a prophet: for those who have ears to hear.Absolutely. Everything he wrote has turned out to be 100% correct ... or even more than that. All one's old dystopian predictions have fallen short of today's reality.

[AnalogReigns]

I’m not a Roman Catholic, rather a bible-believing evangelical.

Here’s the Apostle Paul on female ministers/priests:

“Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, rthen Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but sthe woman was deceived and became a transgressor.” (I Timothy 2:11-14)

“As in yall the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but ashould be in submission, as bthe Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.” (1 Corinthians 14:33-35)

Here are the qualifications for pastors:

“if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife,3 and his children are believers4 and not open to the charge of rdebauchery or insubordination. 7 For an overseer,5 sas God’s steward, must be above reproach. He must not tbe arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent uor greedy for gain, 8 but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, vand disciplined. 9 He must whold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in xsound6 doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.” (Titus 1:6-9) (Notice the “husband” and “he” pronouns. Clearly Paul assumed only men would be Church overseers. 1 Timothy 3:1–13 also has the same language....for elders and deacons—very clearly talking about men, not women)

The 12 Apostles in the Gospels, all men. The 1st Council of Jerusalem in AD 50 found in Acts 15....of the top leaders of the Church, all men.

2000 years of Christians—looking at scripture, have also said, it is wrong to make women pastors/priests/ministers over men.

If the bible really is God’s Word, than all Christians must obey it.

Now, given all those specific instructions in holy scripture—from the New Testament (not the Old Testament), why isn’t the burden of proof on YOU to tell us why women should be made pastors/priests/ministers?

Do you know better than Saint Paul, the Apostles, the New Testament Church, and all the generations of Christians since?

[SuziQ]

The church could never have spread its message (or become profitable) without abiding by social norms including centuries of discrimination of women. For the church to fail to acknowledge this sin and change their doctrine, they simply prove their own message that we are all primitive and imperfect.

Actually, the Catholic Church is one entity that has treated women more equally than most others throughout the centuries. The Church doesn't ordain women because Jesus didn't choose them to be his apostles. The Church teaches that even though men and women are equal in the sight of God, they each have different gifts and strengths.

There are women who have served in positions of power and authority within the Church, most notably Abbesses of organizations of women religious, that certainly didn't conform to the 'social norms' of the day.

I don't understand this whole animus some women have for the Church, feeling they're slighted somehow; I've never, in all my almost 59 years EVER felt that in any Parish in which I've been a member.

[Flightdeck]

Read the quotes from Timothy and Corinthians in Post 83. Obviously the church itself has wholeheartedly rejected these portions of its own scripture. Women are not required to keep their mouths shut in church; they often read as lectors. Anything else would be absurd. They need to get around to rejecting the other absurdities as well.

[lsucat]

And God bless your mother for that, as well as all the mothers out there who choose life for their children.