Posted on 03/17/2012 7:26:45 AM PDT by GonzoII
I believe Calvin was more correct than Arminius because his theology lines up with Scripture more than Arminius’.
But, again, according to whom?
it was only after he studied Calvinism and Augustine did the Bible make real sense.
After my conversion, the Holy Scriptures made sense to me, for the first time, completely. But not the same way they made sense to Calvin or Harley or, I think, you. Very very differently. So, I think, 'making sense' depends again on according to whom?
and it is the responsibility of the Holly Spirit to lead our understanding of the Bible as we read and study it.
Would it then fall to the Holy Spirit to be responsible for our different understandings?
I don't see this as a workable or practical line of thought for 'one Lord, one faith, one baptism.'
I believe that, too. Reading the Bible with the idea that God is preeminent and has ordained all that exists and occurs clarifies both the good and the bad that happen to us in this life.
I can understand that I think. It does have it's positive points. However, it inescapably leads to God as the author of sin and a god that damns some to eternal torment before they are born. When I reach this end, I know I have made a wrong turn somewhere, no matter how good or useful the turn seems at the time.
You 'trying' to tell me what is Christianity is laughable. LOL!! Thanks for the laugh.
CHRISTIANITY IS THE CROSS. JESUS IS THE WORD and The WORD was made flesh and HE came to GIVE His life on THE CROSS.
I suspect this won’t have much affect, but I think you’re not seeing Natural Law’s point; which, I hope I can restate correctly.
There were countless others crucified by the Romans. This was not unique.
What is unique is who Christ is and that He rose from the dead.
What happened at THE CROSS that didn't happen with countless others crucified by the Romans ?
That THOUGHT that crossed your mind was said twenty years ago and still being said today. NOTHING NEW!!
What happened at the cross “ that didn’t happen with countless others crucified by the Romans,” i.e., was unique, is completely because of who Christ is. Not because of the cross or another crucifixion. That’s a repeat of what has been said.
I don’t really see the disagreement here.
Saying was unique, is completely because of who Christ is is NOT saying what happened at THE CROSS.
Amen Dr. E. And the more I study this the more I understand the Reformed view to be the correct version of the scripture. I was reading through Leviticus the other day and can finally understand it and how it's applicable to us. Now THAT'S a feat!!! :O)
Some are very quick to impress their interpretation of Scripture onto others. I would live to see their interpretation and living example of Ephesians Chapter 4:
"Therefore, having put away falsehood, let each one of you speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another. Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and give no opportunity to the devil. Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need. Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you." - Ephesiams 4:25-32
I find your statement quite confusing. Professions of Faith (Creeds, from the Latin Credo meaning I believe) are a self identifier, not an imposed set of beliefs. They form the the premise of an if, then statement. If one believes as per the Confession of Faith, then one is in Communion with the Catholic Church and is a Catholic. If one does not believe, then they are something else.
"but it doesn't stop them from threatening eternal consequences for those accused of "heresy"."
Again, you are displaying a misunderstanding of Catholic doctrine. An anathema is not a condemnation. No where in Church doctrine does it say that the Church or anyone other than God can judge anyone's soul. An anathema is a more severe form of banishment from the Church than an excommunication. That said, both an anathema and an excommunication are a pretty good indication and hint that one's actions and beliefs are jeopardizing ones Salvation.
But how are we to apply in general to the Church, to one Lord, one faith, one baptism?
Luther was convinced the same, if not more so, about his view being the correct version. As was Zwingli, Darby, Koresh, et al.
Are we to measure who is most convinced and adopt their view as the correct version of scripture? No, of course not. We are left with only each individual tasked to determine exegesis, doctrine and dogma for 'the' Church.
An impossible structure, and an unscriptural one.
thanks for your reply.
Every heresy is predicated upon a sincere belief that ones own interpretation is the right one. How are we to maintain orthodoxy without an authority beyond solus conscientia.
So we see the reaction in the Augsburg Confession - away from sola scriptura to a creed.
Everyone wants a unified Christian Creed, as long as it is their own particular flavor. As a result we have a situation in which 75% or so of all Christians believe in one Creed and the remainder spread across 33,000+ other variations all clamoring that no one else can really love God unless others see it as they do. For too many it is not about what is in the heart, but what is upon the lips.
This is typically a Catholic answer. Their view is that the authority of the Church tells them the correct view. Of course, Protestants-any Protestant-would disagree.
So how exactly does a person know when they have the "right" view? I believe it is when a person is able to reconcile the God of the Old Testament with the God of the New. They are one in the same. The God who healed the sick is the same as the one who rain fire on Sodom.
What is really impossible is that people in our "touchy-feely" lives don't want to confront the absolute holiness of God and the evilness (to use Jesus' term) of man's heart. Consequently they cannot understand the scriptures.
Once a person understand that man is driven towards evil and everything God does is simply for us to share in His glory, everything falls into place.
Nothing is perfect which includes our understanding of God's word. We study to show ourselves approved. We do our best. We learn. We believe. We embrace our faith as the free and generous gift from God that it is.
The RCC demands perfectioiin, doesn't get it anywhere and thus is frustrated and its members confused and less than well-informed. If we read the Bible with spectacles given by God, we're doing the best we can and God is pleased.
It's just not that difficult. God creates and elects; Christ teaches and redeems; the Holy Spirit guides us toward the truth of this life and the next, never leaving us alone or bereft. We believe; therefore we exist.
A perfect plan developed by God, imperfectly carried out by undeserving but grateful human beings.
"God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. 2 Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea; 3 Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof. Selah. 4 There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High. 5 God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early." -- Psalm 46:1-5
Amen Dr. E. My life verse has always been:
Jer 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.
There have been a number of trials that I've had to confront recently. As difficult as it sometimes seems, it is a great comfort that we can rest in God's gracious promise that all things work together for our good. His plan is perfect and best. And while we walk through the valley, He is with us; the Lover and Perfector of our souls.
Sounds wonderful, until we get to the part in your theology about those damned to eternal hell before they were born.
That's what we see in scripture. What we do not see in scripture is the teaching that each individual determines what view is right contrary to that authority.
So how exactly does a person know when they have the "right" view? I believe..
I'm afraid this is more individualism. It doesn't answer the question of what happens to church when other individuals are equally convinced of their right view differently from you.
Are all men fallen from birth?
Do all men receive the Holy Spirit to guide them to Christ?
Who gives the free unmerited gift of grace through faith that saves a person’s soul?
Besides being anti-Scriptural, Roman Catholicism is illogical.
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