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To: Dr. Eckleburg
"I've read the offending catechism re: Mary dozens of time. I don't have the time to look it up again. It says what it says. Rome can try to change the meaning of words but every time it does it loses the debate.

I've already said I am not debating. Please do not tr to make this what it is not.

"Mary is no one's mother but the baby Jesus."

At least you have moved past the "Mary had other children nonsense"

Christ ALONE saves those God has given Him to bring safely home."

At last, we have common ground.

According to the Second Vatican Council:

Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix and Mediatrix."

Don't you think it is just a little disingenuous to give that one line out of the entire Lumen Gentium? You ought to have someone teach the entire thing to you rather than grabbing snippets of it off of the internet. It is a magnificent document. The preceding and following lines put it into proper perspective and show it meaning something completely different that you are implying"

"This maternity of Mary in the order of grace began with the consent which she gave in faith at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, and lasts until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this salvific duty, but by her constant intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.(15*) By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and cultics, until they are led into the happiness of their true home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix.(16*) This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.(17*)"

Who lies?

Lying implies motives and is beneath the dignity of this forum.

I would have thought, for all of the times you have posted from 2nd Timothy on these threads you would have read the following. It might temper your demeanor.

"And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will." 2 Timothy 2:24-26

438 posted on 03/30/2012 7:32:50 PM PDT by Natural Law (If you love the Catholic Church raise your hands, if not raise your standards.)
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To: Natural Law

When i said Mary was no one’s mother but Jesus, I phrased the sentence awkwardly. I believe Mary had several other children, as the Bible tells us.

I do not believe, as the RCC teaches, that Mary is the “Mother of the Universe” and the “Mother of all believers.”

That is sacrilege and appears no one where in the Bible. In fact, it is contradicted by Christ when he corrects the crowd’s error to say his real mother and family are not Mary and his brothers and sisters, but all true believers.

Roman Catholics simply ignore those oft-repeated (read inconvenient) verses.


475 posted on 04/01/2012 2:00:00 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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