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To: D-fendr

There is no such thing as free will. There is God’s will and there is man’s will. God’s will is good. Man’s will is against God’s will and is evil. Otherwise it would be God’s will.

Tell me. If you have free will, then why don’t you do God’s will every single moment of your Christian life? After all, you ARE free to choose aren’t you?


561 posted on 04/04/2012 2:09:16 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
"If you have free will, then why don’t you do God’s will every single moment of your Christian life?"

As Catholics we do not accept Total Deprivation as described by Calvin. While we concede that there is a deprivation of original holiness, we believe that human nature has not been totally corrupted.

Through original sin human nature is wounded and inclined to sin. We call that inclination concupiscence". However, the sanctifying Grace of Baptism erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but our nature remains weakened and inclined to sin requiring a state of spiritual battle.

562 posted on 04/04/2012 3:06:40 PM PDT by Natural Law (If you love the Catholic Church raise your hands, if not raise your standards.)
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To: HarleyD
There is no such thing as free will.

Why do you choose to repeat this as you demonstrate otherwise?

If you have free will, then why don’t you do God’s will every single moment of your Christian life?

Because I'm not perfect.

Part of it is knowledge and experience; I make much better choices now than before. But I'm still not perfect, I still have weaknesses, we all do. I have limitations and illnesses; we all do. But our imperfection does not negate free will. Free will does not necessarily require perfection. This is clearly a non sequitur argument you have constructed.

You've glommed onto a simplistic, un-realistic answer to the human condition and built a whole theology around it. Rather, adopted Calvin's.

To you it makes sense, unless you see the reality of your own free will choices. It requires a kind of blindness to the true human condition, the struggle and responsibilities, challenges, successes and failures. And those of others. It most closely resembles attributing everything to Fate. IMHO, it is a philosophical escape.

One last question before I'm off for a few days. It's one I asked twice earlier; if you'd give it your best shot, I'd appreciate it.

If it were demonstrated to you that you have free will, would you believe it is true?

Please take this as a hypothetical: assume that it were demonstrated to your satisfaction, whatever requirements that entails. Then, would you believe it?

Thank you again, Harley. It truly is wonderful to have intelligent, thoughtful and courteous folks with whom to debate these issues on here.

God bless...

571 posted on 04/04/2012 7:58:30 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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