Skip to comments.+ the BEGGAR KING: Answer to an Anti-Catholic + Part I
Posted on 04/16/2012 4:33:07 AM PDT by GonzoII
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There may have on the human level I don't know, but it surely wasn't news to Him he was always with the Father in heaven even when he was on earth.
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven.
I think you meant “there be” - Illiterate Boy....
Yes, the Lord Jesus taught these to be the first and great commandments.
In John 4:22-24 Jesus said:
“Ye worship what ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him. God is a Spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”
It was the human level I was most asking about - I know all we can do is speculate. But speculation is some of this forum that is fun, when not Klannishly trashing other religions... But I was thinking it gives us a thrill when a loved one affirms that love: perhaps it worked that way for Him too. Like I say, I dunno.
>> apposing feelings or aversions toward the will of God<<
No one ever said there wont be opposing emotions or feelings. We still live in this carnal body.
Romans 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Yes, of course the Gospel of Jesus Christ is preached. But it's preached from the scriptures. Why is this such a hard concept?? As as we learned from Paul, it is a good thing to check your preacher once he's done:
"The people in Berea were much nicer than those in Thessalonica, and they gladly accepted the message. Day after day they studied the Scriptures to see if these things [that Paul preached to them during the day] were true." (Acts 17:11)
What is it that they checked? Cassette tapes of oral traditions? Nope. The Written Word of God.
One more thing:
"Mark 13:31 - heaven and earth will pass away, but Jesus' Word will not pass away. But Jesus never says anything about His Word being entirely committed to a book. Also, it took 400 years to compile the Bible, and another 1,000 years to invent the printing press. How was the Word of God communicated? Orally, by the bishops of the Church, with the guidance and protection of the Holy Spirit."
Utter BALDERDASH. The scriptures have been written throughout the ages. Moses wrote it down. God Himself wrote the ten commandments. The scriptures were read before Kings. Jesus almost got stoned after reading the scriptures in his own home town. Christ cited scripture repeatedly. Jesus got into arguments with the SCRIBES and the Pharisees... but it wasn't an argument about their work (as those who wrote down and maintained the scriptures), it was over their own Oral Traditions. In fact, I personally refer to that incident as the First Reformation.
The WRITTEN Word of God has been with us through the history of man on earth, and to pretend otherwise suggests that was made up from nothing.
Hmmmm.... you know, it would have made sense to add in all of these extra-Biblical doctrines at the time that the printing press became possible... except,... oh that's right: the Protestants were the ones who spread the Bible to the masses and showed everyone that the RCC had been making it all up all along.
Amen! No argument there.
But lets add:
2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
1Th 2:13 "For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe."
How can a man's word be the Word of God unless it is of God i.e. God's Word?
Because the Gospels didn't exist when the Apostles went out to preach, how could it?
And Jesus being Baptized forth-with came out of the water:and lo the Heavens were opened to him:and he saw Spirit of God descending as a dove and coming upon Him.
And behold a voice from Heaven saying: "This is My beloved Son.In whom I am pleased".
This is from my Douay-Rheims Bible. The first bible translated. in english from Latin and Greek.
Where does "obeying" come from?
So, you're saying Christ wasn't obeying God? Do you want to go down that path?
1)Catholicism is a liberal religion in which "truth" is ever changing, ever evolving, and symbolic rather than factual; or
2)"Fundamentalists" are an ethnic group of inbred swamp-dwelling "rednecks" whom the Catholic Church wouldn't have as members even if they begged to join.
Either way, the exclusion of "Fundamentalism" by Catholicism is a very bad thing.
The 'Gospel' is the good news that Christ has come, that there is forgiveness from sin through repentance, and that Christ made this possible via his substitutionary sacrifice - paying the penalty for my sin. The preaching of the time was that the Kingdom of God was here and all of the scriptures of that time were being fulfilled right in front of them.
Birth control? The evil of Homosexual acts? That marriage is between a man and a woman? Abortion is murder? No woman priests? The Catholic Church was established by Christ? Which religions have caved on these issues? Not the Catholic Church.
God sent a part of Himself to Earth to save us from eternal damnation.
I believe that the Catholic use of ‘Fundamentalists’ attempts to broad-brush paint anyone (like me) who sticks to scriptures at the expense of dissing their oral traditions. I don’t believe it hits the Fundamentalist faiths specifically... but it would certainly include them by implication.
You must be kidding if you think the Apostles only preached out of the Old Testament. You make the teachings of Christ void by your argument because they were not yet put to writing.
So they can just forget the words of Christ himself:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.
So now the Gospel is the Old Testament?
However, I believe that it is an important doctrine to get straight due to several Scriptural references.
But especially see the post-resurrection Jesus talking with the men on the road to Emmaus: Luke 24:13ff
"27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. ... 44 Then he said to them, These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled. 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures..."
The Scriptures are given by God to men who wrote down the words given them by the Holy Spirit throughout our history. It all hangs together. It's all pointing to Christ. It's all about Him. And clearly (seeing Jesus' own actions above), it was necessary to be written, for why would Jesus ever reference it otherwise? He could have simply done a couple of miracles and been done with it.
So yes, the Gospel is the Old Testament, the New testament.... it is the scriptures, it is the Word of God. All. Together.
How could the Apostles preach the words of Christ if they had to be written first before they can be God's Word. Like I said you make Christ's teaching void because they were not first written.
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