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To: daniel1212

Scripture most certainly was the product of Tradition, which is how it is rightly claimed both Scripture and Tradition are the Word of God. I honestly don’t see a problem with that viewpoint.


58 posted on 05/01/2012 4:48:50 PM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: FourtySeven; daniel1212
Scripture most certainly was the product of Tradition, which is how it is rightly claimed both Scripture and Tradition are the Word of God. I honestly don’t see a problem with that viewpoint.

The problem I see with the viewpoint that Scripture is the "product" of Tradition is that anyone can come along and claim all manner of things were traditionally held or taught and expect that they must also be accepted as equal to Scripture in authority. Another problem with that viewpoint is that much of inspired Scripture is revelation, meaning it was not known or held by anyone before it was revealed by the prophets of the Lord and written down. When the Apostle Paul wrote of the revelation he received directly from Jesus Christ, he communicated those newly revealed truths to the churches by epistles written by his own hand or dictated to others writing for him. These were then copied and distributed throughout the Christian communities.

Paul admonished the Colossians, for example, in Colossians 4:16, "And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea." He told the Thessalonians, "I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren." (I Thess. 5:27) and "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." (II Thess. 2:15) and also, "And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed." (II Thess. 3:14)

St. Peter, also wrote in his epistle, "This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour". Just as their example of the Old Testament called the "Law and the Prophets" was written down, so they also followed to ensure that the truths revealed to them through the Holy Spirit were perpetuated in the faith until this very day. Just as the writers of the books included in the Old Testament were inspired by God and guided by Him, so also do the writers of those books that make up the New Testament and the collection of those sacred writings we call The Holy Bible is one of the greatest gifts we have from God. Orally communicated "traditions" are far too dependent on fallible humans and, unless they are provable by the Bible, are not auhoritative for a Christian.

59 posted on 05/01/2012 7:56:37 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: FourtySeven; metmom; boatbums; caww; smvoice; presently no screen name; Quix; sasportas; ...

You are missing the point. I affirmed that some of Scripture was first oral tradition before being written, that of it first being spoken before it was written (though not after centuries, and i reject the JEPD hypothesis), but i was addressing the often-used logic that since some of Scripture was first oral, then that makes other things which were passed down in the same medium to be equal to it, which is akin to saying that everything the human instruments of revelation wrote was also inspired.

Of course, it does not make it equal, and thus the key issue is that Rome decides which part of this nebulous oral tradition is equal to tradition (even if she disagrees in part with others such as the EOs, which also presume the same), and which effectively adds to the canon, as well as making Rome the supreme authority over both.

And in which she presumes that assurance of Truth and establishment of writings as Scripture necessitates her assuredly infallible magisterium, which she infallibly declares she is, but which is not Scriptural, as truth was known and preserved, and most of the Divine writings were established as such, without an assuredly infallible perpetual magisterium of men.

Nor was the authority of prophets or men of God or of Christ Himself, or the church, dependent upon the sanction of those who laid claim to historical decent and positional authority (though they should affirm such).

Rather, as with Scripture, their authority was established upon conflation with Scripture and the Heavenly qualities and the Divine attestation it provides for (and which the gospel sees in manifest regeneration).

Rome presumes the authority of a Moses, or an apostle, but lacks their attestive qualities in text and in power, and is more akin to the chief priests and elders who disallowed the authority of any who lacked their sanction, but the church began in dissent from those who presumed a level of assured veracity that Scripture did not given them, and such dissent, due to submission to Scripture in key aspects, is sometimes required for the church to prevail against the gates of Hell when it becomes too much as those gates.


65 posted on 05/02/2012 5:21:18 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to forgive+save you,+live....)
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