Koran to be read during televised church service

Catholic Church Conservation ^ | 3 June 2012 | Cathcon

[Gillibrand]

There is controversy in advance of a televised church service on 17 June on ZDF (Cathcon- German equivalent of BBC). The reason: during the service of the Evangelical Free Church congregation (Baptist) in Kamp-Lintfort work where Christians and Muslim work alongside eachother in the mines, there will be a reading from the Koran. As the Baptist pastor, André Carouge explained, Christians and Muslims have maintained close relationships in Kamp-Lintfort since the terrorist attacks of 11 September 2001 in the United States.

[Steelfish]

Thanks. Nice to know you have an inquiring mind unlike some of the others we encounter.

[cloudmountain]

No, they don’t worship the same God. Our One God is a Trinitarian God. What all this shows is the utter bankruptcy of what Luther began and the spawn that has been begotten from his breakaway from the Catholic Church.

Father Martin Luther suffered from the oldest sin of all: arrogance/pride. He knew better than everyone else.

There are some 30,000+ Protestant denominations in this world. That is ABSURD. Jesus wanted us united as His followers in ONE Church, not 30,000. Just think of all the Protestant denominations that have come and gone since 1540 (or so)...and will come and go in the future. Absurd.

One needs only to "google" Protestant denominations to see how HUGE the miasma of different non-Catholics groups there are.

They can't all be right. I wonder sometimes how Protestants square that outlandish number with themselves.

[cloudmountain]

This has everything to do with MEN doing what they feel right in their own eyes.

Just a question: Are there no absolutes?
If some men feel that some things are "right in their own eyes" does that mean that it's not a sin?
People can talk themselves into all kinds of behaviors that they FEEL is RIGHT IN THEIR OWN EYES, but in Christian/Catholic worlds, they are a sin.

Absolutes have no part in what MEN do what they FEEL is right in their own eyes. It's not about what FEELS right but what God SAYS is right....whether men agree or not.

Am I wrong here?

[cloudmountain]

and, if I could be so bold as to add, we should worry more about the beams in our own eyes, than the splinters in the eyes of others.
Instead of nit-picking about those splinters, we should all be praying to gather for His forgiveness, which we, collectively, do not deserve.

GOOD words.

[Steelfish]

Absolutely right. The Great Commission given to his 11 Apostles was to go forth and teach all nations. They were to instruct in one Truth. Hence one Church with the power given to His disciples, whatsoever thou shall bind on earth will be bound in Heaven and whatever thou loosens (forgives) on earth shall be loosened in Heaven. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is rooted in both scripture and apostolic tradition. Protestantism has been the bane of our times. We have seen what occurred with the breakaway Anglicans, a concession to Henry VIII’s fornication and lust. The final days of Luther show a tragic and mentally disturbed mind.

[Natural Law]

"And exactly WHY did Pope John Paul kissed the Koran again????"

He kissed the Chaldean Bible.

[mountn man]

Just a question: Are there no absolutes? If some men feel that some things are "right in their own eyes" does that mean that it's not a sin? People can talk themselves into all kinds of behaviors that they FEEL is RIGHT IN THEIR OWN EYES, but in Christian/Catholic worlds, they are a sin.

Absolutes have no part in what MEN do what they FEEL is right in their own eyes. It's not about what FEELS right but what God SAYS is right....whether men agree or not.

Am I wrong here?

_____________________________________________________

No you are not wrong.

I Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. There are words which man's wisdom teaches, but they are not the pure words of God.

Isaiah 55:9 For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death.

Proverbs 21:2 Every way of a man [is] right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.

I Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

I Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. There are words which man's wisdom teaches, but they are not the pure words of God.

Psalms 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

I Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

Yes, there are absolutes. But man is not comfortable with those absolutes. We have given ourselves over to words that tickle our ears. "Can't we all just get along?" has become a clever slogan, that goes hand in hand with the "coexist" bumper stickers.

The problem is THERE IS absolute truth. That truth is, there is ONLY ONE WAY to heaven, and that is through Christ Jesus. That means all the other belief systems fail.

Now that doesn't mean we can't live together, but it does mean that all beliefs ARE NOT the same or equal. And that offends people. And thats the problem with people today. We are afraid of "OFFENDING" others. The issue is, the Bible tells us that the Gospel is offensive to others. The problem is that pastors today are afraid of offending others. So pastors water down the Gospel and teach a different gospel, so as not to "offend" others.

People are offended by
Romans 3:23 "for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"

People are offended by
Romans 6:23 " For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

People are offended by
Isaiah 59:2 "But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God,And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear. "

People are offended by
"Isaiah 64:6 "6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away."

People are REALLY offended by
Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”

And people are offended at
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

People are offended by
Romans 10 " 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, “ Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
13 for “ WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED .”

And probably the most offensive to people
John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, "I am THE WAY,
and THE TRUTH,
and THE LIFE;
NO ONE comes to the Father... BUT THROUGH ME.

All these are absolutes.

[HarleyD]

Well, now that's not what Father Joe states:

The Koran was a gift to him from the delegation. Islamic peoples are not casual in the giving of gifts. It represents the giver. They knew perfectly well that the Pope was a Catholic Christian, but they gave to him that which was regarded as most important in their life, their own holy book. Thus, at the end of the audience, the Pope showed his deep appreciation to this intimate self-donation, by bowing and kissing the Koran as a sign of respect.

Father Joe

But just to keep in perspective what the Catholic Church teaches about the Muslims here is the Catholic Catechism:

•841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."[330]

•842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race: All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .[331]

Is the Catholic Catechism's view on the Muslim's god wrong?

One should not complain about Luther.

[cloudmountain]

Thank you.

[cloudmountain]

Absolutely right. The Great Commission given to his 11 Apostles was to go forth and teach all nations. They were to instruct in one Truth. Hence one Church with the power given to His disciples, whatsoever thou shall bind on earth will be bound in Heaven and whatever thou loosens (forgives) on earth shall be loosened in Heaven. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is rooted in both scripture and apostolic tradition. Protestantism has been the bane of our times. We have seen what occurred with the breakaway Anglicans, a concession to Henry VIII’s fornication and lust. The final days of Luther show a tragic and mentally disturbed mind.

I have watched EWTN over the years and listen to the FORMER Protestants tell their stories. The Journey Home with Marcus Grodi is always interesting to hear all the FORMER Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc., tell their stories of conversion. So many of them started by reading the Church Fathers of the first 300 years of Christianity.

How do Protestants make sense of 1500 YEARS of Catholicism, then ONE angry priest, Father Martin Luther, changing all that? How do they make sense of the 30,000 different versions of Christianity, ALL discarding the one Church founded by Jesus 2000 years ago?

And, how in the world do the Anglicans justify Henry VIII's abandonment of Catholicism ALL BECAUSE he HAD to have a son? How do they justify the abomination of SIX wives for one son, who, by the way, died before his 20th birthday?
Do you remember the rhyme for figuring out the fate of his SIX wives?

Divorced, beheaded, died, divorced, beheaded, survived.
This arrogant creep and wife murderer founded his own church and the Anglicans bought it and still buy it today. Hard to believe. How can Anglicanism even THINK to be its own denomination, founded by SUCH a person?

[Steelfish]

True. The Church has the largest number of conversions from other religions including scores of former Communists, atheists and agnostics and even Rabbis, including a former Chief Rabbi of Rome.

http://www.zenit.org/article-9927?l=english

[redgolum]

Sad.

[cloudmountain]

True. The Church has the largest number of conversions from other religions including scores of former Communists, atheists and agnostics and even Rabbis, including a former Chief Rabbi of Rome

I was just watching some of the diamond jubilee of Queen Elizabeth and the announcer reminded us that Queen Elizabeth is HEAD OF THE ANGLICAN CHURCH. Since when does a queen or king be the HEAD of a Christian church?? When did the queen/king become equal to ST. PETER, whom Jesus chose as the ROCK on which to build His Church?

The Apostolic Tradition, begun by Jesus Himself, is unbroken since St. Peter was crucified on Vatican Hill in Rome. St. Peter asked to be crucified UPSIDE DOWN as he didn't deserve the "honor" to be crucified like Our Lord.

Why do Protestants continue to deny that Jesus-founded Apostolic Tradition?

The Apostles chose another leader of their group, NOT by lottery, as the rabbis chose their Chief Priest (Rabbi) but by vote of the current Church leaders (now cardinals since there are just too many bishops in the world to make a vote feasible).

Oh well.

[Steelfish]

Anglican (Episcopalian); Lutheran; and Presbyterian Churches are a farce led by homosexual pastors and “bishops,” the so-called Black churches are political outfits in sheep’s clothing that cater to mostly the “illiterate” segment of the plantation crowd, and then you have a variety of mega-church Protestant pastors who use their sucker-audience to simply fatten their wallets and those of their family a la Rev. Schuller; Joel Osteen; and the rest of the scumbags.

[cloudmountain]

Anglican (Episcopalian); Lutheran; and Presbyterian Churches are a farce led by homosexual pastors and “bishops,” the so-called Black churches are political outfits in sheep’s clothing that cater to mostly the “illiterate” segment of the plantation crowd, and then you have a variety of mega-church Protestant pastors who use their sucker-audience to simply fatten their wallets and those of their family a la Rev. Schuller; Joel Osteen; and the rest of the scumbags.

Geez, Steelfish, quit sugar-coatin' it and say what you REALLY feel. :o)