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To: fishtank
The terms of the discussion are so muddled that no one involved in the debate seems able to identify their own views vis-a-vis the following distinct positions:

(1) Pelagianism
(2) Semipelagianism
(3) Orthodox soteriology
(4) Calvinism.
(5) Hypercalvinism/Jansenism.

17 posted on 06/21/2012 8:55:08 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake

What’s troubling is that many Calvinists who talk about grace don’t really understand it, scripturally.

I’ve met a significant number of Calvinists whose testimony is essentially, “One day, I just realised I was part of the elect” - and that is the basis of their claim to salvation. Nothing about repentance. Nothing about calling upon the Lord.

People who believe that way are sorely deluded and still lost in their sins.


27 posted on 06/21/2012 9:36:04 AM PDT by Yashcheritsiy (not voting for the lesser of two evils)
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To: wideawake; fishtank
The terms of the discussion are so muddled that no one involved in the debate seems able to identify their own views

Here is what I feel is an apt description of the various views. This is written by an Armenian-not a Calvinist. But I think it's a fair analogy.

I put the line between the Arminian and Calvinist position simply because everything above the line is really one view (that man-no matter how small-must do something). The Calvinist view is that God reaches down and pulls out men. Perhaps that is why Christ often talks about being "fishers of men".
90 posted on 06/21/2012 3:58:07 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: wideawake

94 posted on 06/21/2012 6:06:48 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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