Posted on 06/26/2012 6:49:41 AM PDT by marshmallow
I got the following e-mail press release today from the Anglican Ordinariate’s Susan Gibbs, and there’s at least one compelling detail worth noting:
Six former Episcopal priests from the Fort Worth area, including a father and son, will become part of history when they are ordained Catholic priests together on June 30.
The six are part of the first ordination class for the new Catholic Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter. Based in Houston, the ordinariate is equivalent to a diocese, but national in scope. It was created earlier this year by Pope Benedict XVI for Anglican groups and clergy in the United States seeking to become Catholic while retaining elements of their Anglican heritage.
Fort Worth Bishop Kevin Vann will ordain the men as Catholic priests on Saturday, June 30, 9 a.m. at St. Elizabeth Ann Seton Catholic Church, 2016 Willis Lane, Keller, TX 76248. Msgr. Jeffrey N. Steenson, head of the 0rdinariate, will participate.
And regarding the father and son:
Among those being ordained are Charles Hough, III, and his son, Charles Hough, IV. They will be among a handful of father-son Catholic priests in U.S. history. A special exception has been given for the former Anglican priests who are married to be ordained Catholic priests for the Ordinariate.
(Excerpt) Read more at patheos.com ...
I just hope/pray that they are actually saved! Have they actually asked Jesus into their lives, thanking him for dying on the Cross for their sins?
So many Priests and Pastors of various Churches are UNSAVED,that is my only hope.
Do they have the saving knowledge of Christ to actually lead another to The Lord?
When someone that is truly searching comes to them asking for guidance, will they even know how to lead them to Jesus?
No one knows they are saved until their particular judgment, just as Scripture teaches.
Just believe!
**So many Priests and Pastors of various Churches are UNSAVED,that is my only hope.**
How do you know that? Are you God?
We are judged at the moment of our death (particular judgment) and then will partake in the final judgment at the Second Coming of Christ.
We can’t judge, period. Only God can do that.
Good story and the day that they will be ordained, will be the feast of the first martyrs of the Church in Rome, coming at a time when there is great concern about religious freedom here in this country and attacks against Christians elsewhere.
You can have the virtue of HOPE.
Sounds like the Borgia family.
Yeah just like that, including the scandals of poisoning. Sheesh.
I was thinking more of the House of Borgia especially Alfons de Borja, Callixtus III, who from I have read was not responsible for any poisonings and vindicated Joan of Arc.
But you are free to jump to any conclusion you wish.
My friend, Scripture does NOT teach that at all.
We can be certain of our salvation, we can know that we know!
If you are the least bit unsure than please re evaluate! If that is the case for anybody, get on your knees and ask Jesus into your life.
A general sinners prayer from the heart is what is required.
Jesus please come in to my heart, thank you for dying on the Cross in my place, thank you for dying for me. Please come in to my life and save me, fill me with your precious Spirit... God Be Merciful to me a sinner, I give my life to you, thank you Lord for saving me. Please fill me with your
That is just a general prayer, you can make up your own as long as it includes Jesus dying on the Cross for you etc.
If we are uncertain of our salvation, we need to go to the Cross of Jesus.
Salvation begins when we invite Jesus in to our life, the Holy Spirit of God seals us for eternity.
Start reading from the Gospel of John, pray for God to open your understanding as you prayerfully read His Word.
Get yourself into a good Bible believing Church, this may mean leaving the mainline Church.
For Catholics, the Charismatic Catholic Church is wonderful. I am NOT a Catholic
God Bless
My apologies for so jumping.
Friendofgeorge:
Can you show me in the NT where that prayer you cited is all that is required: I have read every book in the NT [all 27 of them] several times and The Catholic Church has a Gospel reading and an Epistle at every Sunday Liturgy and over a 3 year cycle, pretty much covers the entire NT, and I can’t seem to find that “General Sinners Prayer from your Heart”.
Somewhat related, I read where the Calvinist and the Arminians in the Southern Baptist Convention are fighting and then issue came up and most SBC’s are now even admitting that this Theology based on the ‘General Sinners prayer” is not based on the Theology of the NT. I will go even further, it is “cheap Grace” and to quote an Anglican who I admire, C.S. Lewis, it is a classic example of “Mere Christianity.”
Regards
No problem, and God Bless.
Where to begin....
We are never done reading The Word, over and over and over, we still will learn more each time.
Prayer is simply talking to God/Christ. Jesus said I stand at the door and knock, how else can we answer him without talking to him?
If you have ever had anybody come to you and ask how they can become a Christian? There is only one way, that person has to ask Jesus to come into their life, there is no other way.
Talking/asking = prayer.
CS Lewis was NOT against folks asking Jesus into their lives, he was 100 % for it ABSOLUTELY. I believe Lewis said ...if there is no outcome from a Christian message, all is in vain.
That`s why we ave alter calls at crusades and Church services....BTW one does not have to even be a Church goer to be saved! Religion has never saved one person, it`s a personal relationship with The Lord Jesus Christ that brings salvation.
Folks need Christian fellowship, but to have a experience with the Living God, one does not require a Church service, can be SAVED in a hotel room or in a bedroom whatever.
A general sinners prayer? I was not aware that there was a doctrine, I thought I had made it up :)
Psalms is full of what could be called sinners prayers, psalm 51 is one that in my Bible is well worn.
Jesus offers multiple offers to be saved by Him in the Bible, too many to list.
You can NOT have a relationship with Christ without talking to Him, it is NOT possible. Talking to Him is prayer.
Nobody can become a Christian without responding to Christ! You respond to Christ through prayer.
Lord Jesus I am a sinner, come in to my life save me, I believe you died on the cross for my sins, I turn to you Lord from my sin through faith in Christ Jesus.
God Be Merciful to me a sinner...this phrase is throughout the Bible multiple times, you can call it whatever you like, a sinners prayer is what I call it
Are you against alter calls in Church services or at crusades? Are you going to suggest that CS Lewis was against a alter call? He said if there is no outcome the message is in vain.
A Christian message that does not provide a alter call at the end, or something like that, as far as I am concerned is a missed opportunity.
A Billy Graham crusade, or any crusade would never end without a chance for people to commit their life to Christ. There is no way to be saved without asking Jesus to come in to our life, this can only be done by a prayer.
Friendofgeorge:
I think you are sincere in your beliefs and seem well intentioned in your post and I don’t detect a polemical perspective in your posts, just a different take on some theological points.
So some thoughts:
1) Psalm 51, the Misere in Latin, is a prayer of repentence no doubt but it is also a prayer of asking for forgiveness and contrition for sins committed, i.e. David had come into communion [to use a Traditional Catholic term] or Fellowship with God and then he was involved with another mans wife and had that Guy, her husband lead a Military Attack with no chances of success knowing in all probability, the General would be killed [and he was].
2) From my perspective, the underlying theology of the “General Sinners Prayer” that traditionally has been so popular in evangelical Protestant traditions such as most Baptist, some Methodist, and some pentecostals, [not so much in Reformed-Calvinist or Lutheran traditions] is that it requires “you to ask Jesus into your heart”. Now implicitly, you are doing the asking so the logical question is where did the person saying the General sinners prayer get the supernatural power [i.e Grace] to ask Jesus in his or her heart. So one could make an argument that the underlying theology behind the “General Sinners prayer” is pelagian, which was an unorthodox theology regarding Grace and Free will proposed by the 5th century British Monk named “Pelagius”
3) So from Catholic Theology, the “General Sinners Prayer” being what has to be said is unorthodox and does hint at the errors of Pelagius. Let’s take your “General Sinners Prayer” that you stated, if you say that “you have to ask Jesus” in this prayer, then you are by your own free will, unaided by God’s Grace coming into Communion with God.
If on the other hand, you say, well there was some First Grace that moved the person to say the ‘General Sinners Prayer”, then you are moving closer to the historic Apostolic Tradition and Catholic understanding as there has to be a first Grace to removed original sin that transformed the inner natural of man [i.e. His Mind, Will, Passions, actions, etc] to move towards God. In the Catholic Tradition, and this would be true with the Eastern Orthodox as well, the “normative means” of the Grace is the Sacrament of Baptism which is the menas thru which God gives the human person Grace to come into commuion with the Holy Trinity and become adopted Sons or Daughters of God.
Of Course, one argument that is levied against the Catholic Position is that infants have not say in being baptized. That is true, but they do have “original sin” and it is still God’s actions to save the infant. Take for example in the Catholic Tradition, the Church is the universal sacrament and instrument thru which God reconciles humanity back to himself. The CHurch, then as the Body and Bride of Christ is the means thru which the Holy Spirit moves the members of the Body of CHrist [in this case the Parents of the infant Child] to have their child baptized. Thus, the First Grace of Salvation is because of God via the Holy Spirit moving the parents to bring their infant to the Sacrament of Baptism thru which God’s Grace is poured out into the young infant and original sin is washed away and the theological virtures of Faith, Hope and Love are infused into the child so that they can live out those theological virtures the rest of their lives, which of course means they have to worship and pray to God, and conform their lives to the Faith and when they fall short, as for forgivessness in line with what you cited in Psalm 51.
Regards
Nowhere in the New Testament is it taught that a "general sinners prayer from the heart" grants infallible salvation.
In 1 Cor 9, beginning at verse 24, we read:
Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.Paul would not consider "becoming disqualified" as a possibility if he believed in infallible one-time salvation through reciting a "sinner's prayer". That simply isn't the teaching of Scripture.
Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. -- 1 Cor 10:12That's why many Protestants do not accept the idea of one-time infallible salvation, either. (Lutherans and Anglicans in particular.)
Put your faith and trust in God, not in a one-time praying of some rote prayer that isn't found in Scripture.
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