So, no these were not just innocent Huguenots minding their own business. The King had sent de Avilés to protect Spain's shipping lanes from pirates, including the 2 mutinous groups from Fort Caroline, and to remove the French from Spanish claimed territory.
I'm not sure where exactly you get the information that these particular French Huguenots were pirating. That seems like a slander.
However, the Spaniard Menendez was sent by the Spanish King to remove French colonists from the area. He may have initiated the initial skirmishes which the French Protestants and the Spanish Catholics engaged in. After which the Norman Ribault did attempt to follow Menendez's forces & ships South, but lost all his own ships and many sailors. So he did pursue, looking to fight, but storms busted up that effort.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Caroline
As for Ribault's fleet, all of the ships either sank or ran aground south of St. Augustine during the storm, and many of the Frenchmen onboard were lost at sea. Ribault and his marooned sailors were located by Menéndez and his troops and summoned to surrender. Apparently believing that his men would be well treated, Ribault capitulated. Menéndez then executed Ribault and several hundred Huguenots (French Protestants) as heretics at what is now known as the Matanzas Inlet. The atrocity shocked Europeans even in that bloody era of religious strife.[2] A fort built much later, Fort Matanzas, is in the vicinity of the site. This massacre put an end to France's attempts at colonization of the southeastern Atlantic coast of North America.
So what we see is that Menedez's actions were quite horrific, and much as AnalogReigns characterized it. Perhaps you both might apologize to that freeper? He is quite intelligent, you know? And he brought no untruths here. Menendez engaged in two separate slaughters, adding up to approx 600 victims.
In fact, it does appear that Titanites is the one hoping to spin here, what happened those centuries ago, which is sad, for the slaughtering didn't end with the bloody Spaniard, sent by a Spanish king to do the very thing that he did...
More background; Dominique de Gourgue
Philip II of Spain was a Catholic king who hated Protestants and considered them heretics, including the French Huguenots. His troops were ordered to kill any they found in the colonies. Thus, in 1565 there was a notorious massacre around Fort Caroline in what is now Jacksonville, Florida, by troops under Pedro Menéndez de Avilés. After capturing the fort and slaying nearly all his prisoners, Menéndez hung their bodies on trees, with the inscription, “Not as Frenchmen but as Lutherans.”[2] The massacre aroused indignation in France among Protestants and Roman Catholics alike. The king sent complaints to the Spanish court, but Menéndez and his associates, instead of being punished for the deed, received rewards and honors.
Pretty sick, huh? It disgusted many Catholics, too, but not Phillip II. One cannot but help to wonder how such news contributed to religious animosities in Europe at the time, and for generations afterward. Meanwhile in Florida;
Embittered by the cruelty and indignity that he had received from the Spaniards, de Gourgue determined to avenge the death of his Protestant compatriots, though he was himself a Catholic.[1] He sold everything he had and borrowed money from his brother Antoine in order to recruit a crew and charter three boats. He sailed to Cuba with two hundred men, never telling them the goal of their trip. Once in Cuba he made his intentions clear, and his crew approved his choice of revenge. Gourgue then moved to attack Spanish-held Fort Caroline, which they had renamed as Fort San Mateo, enlisting the aid of Fort Caroline's old allies, the Saturiwa and Tacatacuru, Timucua peoples from the area. The fort soon surrendered to de Gourgues' forces. The French and Indians killed the Spanish prisoners in retribution for the Fort Caroline and other massacres of Protestants.[3] They hung the garrison with the inscription, “Not as Spaniards but as murderers".
From such as the above, we can see clearly that in this particular instance, it most certainly is not the case that the info is merely
In fact, it appears that quite the opposite sort of thing is occurring on this thread, but this time, with yet another repeated refrain of "but the Huguenots started it!" employed as a cover-up or excuse for mass slaughter of Protestants by Catholics being unjustifiable, unless one wishes to consider the killings more as continuance of the wars of religion being fought in Europe in that century.
Real groundbreakers, those Spaniards of old.
The truth often seems like slander to those who cannot see. You can read some here:
From Fort Caroline, the freebooters went out and raided not only Spanish merchants and treasure ships but Spanish cities as well. Cartagena and Panama in South America both fell prey to the Protestant pirates. Cuba was hit particularly hard - probably due to proximity - with both Santiago and the well established capital of Havana sacked and plundered.
Of course the Spanish weren't going to hold still for all these Froggy shenanigans. In 1565 King Philip II sent a force led by Captain General Pedro de Menendez of Avilles to deal with the problem. 30 ships left Cadiz in June carrying a force of 2,000 soldiers along with upwards of 500 settlers. The Captain General was charged by the king to handle the pirate problem and establish a Spanish fort in "The Florida". De Menendez was the right man for the job not only because of his ruthlessness but his business interests as well. He owned several merchant ships, one of which had recently gone missing in the area of Fort Caroline with his own son aboard.
And here:
The Huguenots were naturally interested in capturing Spanish galleons.
After the Spanish instituted their treasure fleet, the French continued their attacks on vessels, but it became much more difficult to accomplish their felonious tasks. After Jean Fleury was captured during an attack in 1527 and hanged as a pirate, the French privateers realized that while ships were becoming more and more difficult to capture, Spanish port cities were much easier targets. This changed the Huguenots' strategies significantly. As long as they timed their raids correctly, the Huguenots would be able to capture much of the Spanish treasure before it ever reached the treasure fleet. This plan of action paid off handsomely as they proceeded to attack ports in Puerto Rico, Havana, and Cartagena (modern-day Colombia), collecting an impressive amount of pirate booty.
Fort Caroline
As the religious civil war in France continued, many French Protestants found themselves exiled. In 1564, a group of them settled on Florida's coast, calling their new home Fort Caroline. Unlike most settlers whose ambition was to work the land, this group was comprised of soldiers and tradesmen who planned to use the area as a base from which pirate raids on both Spanish ships and Spanish ports could easily be conducted. Unfortunately for the French, the Spanish were growing tired of the Huguenot pirates, and they decided it was time to settle the score.
In April of 1562, King Philip II sent Spanish nobleman Pedro Menendez de Avilles to the territories of the Spanish Main. Menendez was named the Captain General of the Spanish fleet, and his mission was to catch any pirates he could and deal with them ruthlessly. Menendez and his brother owned several merchant ships and he was very familiar with both trading and security. He made immediate recommendations that the port cities should be fortified, and that armed ships be on patrol in the Caribbean to protect the ports and ships while they were there.
So what we see is that Menedez's actions were quite horrific.
Yes horrific, but he killed only soldiers/pirates and let the women and children go. I suppose you can believe that if Ribault had reached Menedez’s outpost successfully he would not have killed any of them.
Perhaps you both might apologize to that freeper?
I don’t apologize for truth telling.
He is quite intelligent, you know?
That is a relative assessment that really has no meaning to anyone but yourself.
And he brought no untruths here.
No, just half-truths.
In fact, it does appear that Titanites is the one hoping to spin here.
The truth seems like spin to some.
Pretty sick, huh?
Yes, sick, but done to those murdering pirates were occupying Spanish territory, pirating Spanish ships and plundering Spanish settlements, and who had pirated Menedez’s own ships and killed his son.
your statement should read French Protestants and the Spanish Catholics
Secondly, note what you yourself posted , launching a surprise dawn attack on the Fort Caroline garrison --> an attack on a garrison. This was war
Thirdly, Philip II of Spain was a Catholic king who hated Protestants is overly simplistic. Protestantism never spread in Spain or Italy due to cultural reasons. The austereness didn't ring a bell and also the Papacy was considered close enough to "be one of their own".
Where was Philip threated by Protestantism? In the Netherlands where there was the 100 years war in which the Flemish (Dutch and northern Belgians) were fighting to be separated from Habsburg domination. The differences were political, regional, cultural and by accepting calvinism, it added another separation between the two peoples.
in the case of France, they most certainly DID -- The Huguenots make a big sob story about their reparations but never mention that they were the losing side in a war in which they fired the first shot
let's trace the Huguenots, shall we. In france, under Francis I, France was tolerant of all religious views
however, what did the Huguenots do? In the affair of the placards they posted placards all over Paris and even on the bedchamber door of the king (a security breach that angered him and made him change his tolerance position) -- these placards were attacks on Catholics.
So, instead of discussing, the Huguenots went to attack the Catholic majority who until then were content to let them live and debate and discuss and debate. Incidently, until this time the Huguenots were increasing, like the Moslems in Bradford, but then they started to get shrill and wake people up with their attacks
This polemic was an attack and the Huguenots started this retaliation.This was in 1534
Next, came the French wars of religion in which the Huguenots conspired against the King. This, added to the previous attack meant that they now publically came to attack the conservative forces. The progressives of the Huguenots were the precursors of the Revolutionaires
The people who became Huguenots were primarily the urban elite, like our present-day New Yorkers who take a fad and they saw that this was a means to oppose the King, so Huguenotism became a political tool
A group of Huguenots tried to kidnap the Prince Francis II when his father died -- causing more antagonism.
Huguenots in 1560 attacked Catholic Churchs and destroyed properties in Rouen and La Rochelle -- thus the FIRST salvo was lobbed by the Huguenots. -- the Catholics retailiated with mobs at seeing their places of worship attacked and defiled by Huguenots
Next, in 1562-70, we have the wars -- now political-religious, so no, it was not a simple case of "persecution" --> The Huguenots were one side of a civil war, which they lost
Now, let's come to the juicy part, the St. Bart's day massacre -- this occured in 1572, 40 years after the first provocations by the Huguenots and 12 years after they started destroying Catholic Churchs (just like the Moslems in America they were quiet until their numbers grew)
now, King Charles XI was openly in favor of the Huguenots -- so a political moment. Hence the attacks on the opposing side
So, let's see in conclusion -- Huguenots first start their provocations in 1534, then in 1560 start attacking Catholic Churchs (with no provocation), then start their political support against the conservatives and start a civil war. After 12 years their side loses the civil war and yet they are still allowed to live and practise their faith (note this is the 1500s, not a nice time, yet they get this tolerance) -- but they still play political intrigues. So, one faction starts to attack and massacre the other faction
so, stop the entire "poor persecuted Huguenots" -- they brought it on themselves. the Huguenots after doing their persecuting of Catholics, got retaliation, then they went to England and many to South Africa where they were among the racists enforcing Apartheid.
Many came to the US and Germany as well.
In England and Germany they were Calvinists in non-Calvinist lands, but no "persecution". In the US they were one of many and no, no "persecutions". In South Africa they were one of the folks doing the persecutions and in Northern Germany they enthusiastically participated in the Kulturkampf.
what persecution did they face once they left France?
As shown above (and you can check the facts for yourself), the Huguenots were the one who bit the hand that fed them, then launched the first attacks, started a civil war and then lost
They were like the Moslems in present day France -- slowly starting, making nice noises, but then attacking Christian churchs and finally starting a civil war.
They lost, tough luck --- the losers in the 1500s were not given much graces, yet they were allowed to stay with the same acts of tolerance AFTER losing politically. Yet they continued supporting political intrigues and there was a political massacre.
The Huguenots were on the losing side, so they got killed like the Catholics in England or in Scandanavia.
It was the 1500s, a pretty barbaric time
The mass killings of the Huguenots were done at the hands of rioters in a pogrom after it was learned that the Huguenots were conspiring with the English to stage a coup and facilitate an invasion. It is never healthy to conspire against a sitting king.