Posted on 07/10/2012 9:21:34 PM PDT by ReformationFan
Reminds me of an argument I had with two on here.
I asked them if I would go to hell if I don’t identify as a Christian, even though I very strongly believe in Judeo-Christian values. They said I was damned; so then I start going on about if there’s beer and metal in Hell...
Chesterton on God and atheists:
"If there were no God,there would be no atheists."
My question to you would be, if you’re not a Christian then why would you want to be in heaven since it will be a place for eternal worship of the Lord Jesus Christ?
It’s better than being tortured for all of eternity.
I, of course, certainly agree with you on that. Why do you not identify as a Christian now?
Revelation 22:1-5 discussing heaven:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2022:1-5&version=ESVUK
“Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants] will worship him. They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign for ever and ever.”
I believe those who are saved in Christ are still sinners yet forgiven by the Savior’s act of love on the cross. That includes homosexuals, prostitutes, even rapists and murderers. However those who never repent of their sins or acknowledge their acts as sin probably have never truly asked for Christ’s forgiveness in order to be saved.
IOW, you can be a sinner and yet be saved but you can’t deny your sin is sin and expect forgiveness. You can’t be marching in gay pride marches and refuse to believe your homosexuality is sin and still find salvation.
However, it is Christ that judges the hearts of all men and I defer to Him for the final say on each individual. Some ministers have said “When we get to Heaven, we’ll be surprised at who got in and who didn’t because we only know the outward man and not the confessed soul.”
Unless you're a masochist.
Even masochists have their limits.
Forthwith upright he rears from off the Pool
His mighty Stature; on each hand the flames
Drivn backward slope thir pointing spires, and rowld
In billows, leave i’th’ midst a horrid Vale.
Then with expanded wings he stears his flight
Aloft, incumbent on the dusky Air
That felt unusual weight, till on dry Land
He lights, if it were Land that ever burn’d
With solid, as the Lake with liquid fire;
Blake remarked of Milton,
” ... he was a true Poet, and of the Devil’s party without knowing it.”
I look at it this way: if Heaven is crowded, I have a shot. But if only Padre Pio, Thomas More and Joan of Arc are up there...
And yet, we are all called to be saints...
People like Pelosi.
It’s pretty much the same thing with bad police as far as I’m concerned. You get the ones that are Democrats, all for having children out of wedlock, abortions, things like that, well, it ruins it for the ones that believe in abstinence and life at conception.
Well put
A discussion such as that with an atheist is all pie in the sky nonsense anyway. Jesus himself never spoke or taught of a Heaven (like Asgarde or Mt. Olympus) nor Hell (like Hades). Those doctrines didn’t exist until the 5th century christian church decided to “adopt” them. Jesus (as well as Revelation thru heavy allegory) only ever speaks of the Restoration of the original Kingdom of Israel with G-d’s presence inhabiting the Temple Mount once again. Jesus (as well as Revelation thru heavy allegory) only ever speaks of the unlawful and unbelievers being consumed by G-d’s wrath-fire into nothingness, nonexistence. Pearly gates in golden clouds are awaiting no believer and “eternal damnation” in a cave of hellfire awaits no non-believer. There is only the Kingdom of G-d (a restored Israel) on earth in the Age-to-Come, or burnt to nonexistence by G-d’s Wrath. Re-read Jesus’ words again (with an OT handy) and you’ll find that he never once speaks of the pearly golden gates nor the hades-dimension of hellfire. There is a lot of allegory in the bible, you just can’t take it at face value. In addition, just because “the church” deemed it OK to “translate” some words into things like “hell” or “heaven” doesn’t automatically mean that what was said just becomes that. What Jesus teaches from the OT is a lot more beautiful and scary than the adoption of myths by the 5th century church that corrupts christianity to this day.
Please don’t let the likes of Pelosi and others like her keep you from the love of Christ. I highly recommend reading the Bible in its entirety(I did that for the first time 4 years ago) and if that task seems a bit daunting, then the New Testament in its entirety.
I also recommend trying out a Biblically orthodox, gospel preaching church in your area. Two good examples would be the Presbyterian Church in America(the denomination of the church I attend) and the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod.
You can see if there’s one near you at either
https://processor.pcanet.org/ac/directory/directory.cfm
or
http://www.lcms.org/search?q=church%20locator
God bless you.
What do you expect from a Pastor with the last name Gross?
I think I agree with you. This atheist is just trouble mongering (as they always do). His argument doesnt hold water.
Yeah, that’s a great argument.
OMG, lighten up. I can’t even take a guy seriously who says being homosexual is the same as being overweight or speeding.
Couple things here.
Read what is said about Lazarus.
Also, eternal damnation is real. God isn’t going to destroy the souls of the damned, they will simply be separated from him for all eternity. They will not get non-existance.
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