The Elephant in the Room: Mitt’s Mormon Faith [Which is why one-third still don't know he's Lds]

ThyBlackMan.com ^ | July 10, 2012 | Kevin M. Jackson

[Colofornian]

(ThyBlackMan.com) If you remember during the 2008 Presidential election, there was a strong effort to try to expose the faith of then Senator Obama. Many tried to label him an extremist because of his connection with the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright.

I am curious to know if Mitt Romney will receive the same type of treatment given the lack of knowledge that most Americans have about the Mormon faith. I think that faith must be on the table since it was a factor in the previous election. Perhaps the reason it has not be raised is because the GOP leaders know that up to 25% of their base absolutely will not vote for a Mormon regardless of his credentials.

Let’s take a look at some of the beliefs of GOP Presidential Candidate, Mitt Romney Mormon’s faith. All of the information provided was taken from the Mormon Faith Tenets.

• The Mormon faith teaches that God the Father was initially a regular man who had a wife and they both lived on a celestial planet. They conceived and produced celestial offspring which gave birth to spirits that created Jesus, the devil and mankind. Once babies are born, they receive one of these spirits. (Journal of Discourses Vol. 6 page 265)
• Mormon’s believe that members who tithe 10% of their income will become gods of their own celestial planet.
• Mormons believe that the Book of Mormon is more accurate that the Christian Bible. (History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 461)
• Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil are spirit brothers. (Mormon doctrine page 163)
• Mormons believe that Jesus return to New Jerusalem will be on the American Continent. (Mormon Article of Faith #10)
• Mormons believe that the gospel will be propagated through the Book of Mormon, not the bible. (Doctrines and Covenants section 10)
• Mormons believe in baptizing the dead by proxy.
• The Mormon church has a very disappointing past of allowing blacks to become clergy men.

According a Christian Post article,” What do Mormons Believe? Ex-Mormon speaks out, October 18, 2011 by reporter Devenish the following items were cited about Mormon beliefs:

• Mormons do not believe in the trinity.
• Mormons do not believe in grace.
• Mormons do not believe in the original sin of man. According to the article, you cannot sin until the age of eight.
• Mormons do not believe in hell.
• Mormons believe that you can own your own planet if you are a good Mormon, married in the temple and tithe.
• The ten tribes of Israel will return back to Missouri.

I took the time to itemize some of the different beliefs that Mitt Romney believes in to show that he is not a perfect candidate just because he seemingly names the name of Christ. We have to be careful with the Trojan Horses the GOP sends our way in the name of religion.

I challenge all of the African American pastors to consider if they want to vote for someone who believes totally different from what they preach every Sunday. If you can vote for Mitt Romney with a clear conscience knowing his religious beliefs, his insensitive policies that do not benefit the African American community then go for it. If you have reservations, then you must consider our current commander and chief.

Staff Writer; Kevin M. Jackson

[Colofornian]

While I find most of the bullet points odd, at best, I don’t consider even one of them relevant when voting for a President of the United States.

(No, I suppose there's no discernment required of a POTUS, is there...no discernment needed in public policy or foreign policy...no discernment needed even in assessing a world religion as a threat ... Islam... gullibility...vulnerability to deception...all tossed to the wind as irrelevant, eh?) /sarc

[Religion Moderator]

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[greyfoxx39]

What possible deficit in your upbring could provoke such a question?

You posted a list of beliefs. I asked a question regarding your belief in response.

It appears that your response regarding my "deficit in upbring" is unwarranted.

[Colofornian]

All of the Mormons I know are fine, upstanding, scandal free, citizens. This makes me think Romney would make an outstanding president.

(Hey, if you're auditioning for godhood, yup, better be on your best behavior...And don't forget that God has something to do with the success of any given govt...what do you think he'll feel about voters voting for an idol competing for God's worship, glory, and reception of prayers?)

[svcw]

There are no conditions to the Gift of Grace.
However, because He loved us first, we are willing to serve Him because He was gracious and forgiving to us.

[svcw]

If you are giving your son a dollar to go to the movies as a gift, you give him the dollar without conditions.
If you want him to work for the dollar to get this pretend gift, it is not given freely by you, it is conditional.
God’s gift to us is unconditional.

[chris37]

Ok, thank you.

[Religion Moderator]

"possible deficit in your upbringing"

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[ravenwolf]

(ThyBlackMan.com) If you remember during the 2008 Presidential election, there was a strong effort to try to expose the faith of then Senator Obama. Many tried to label him an extremist because of his connection with the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright.

I am curious to know if Mitt Romney will receive the same type of treatment given the lack of knowledge that most Americans have about the Mormon faith.

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Challenging Mormonism’s assertions and teachings is not “bashing”.

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This has nothing to do with my comment except for the word bashing, you call it what you want and i will do the same.

My comment was in regards to what is written in the thread above, which is this.

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I am curious to know if Mitt Romney will receive the same type of treatment

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Since Romney and Mormonism is every where on these threads it seems to me he is getting the same kind of treatment or much worse.

[svcw]

All of the Mormons I know are fine, upstanding, scandal free, citizens.

Why how magnanimous of you to determinate what mormonISM is because you know a nice guy next door.

In general, people do not determine a particular belief system because of a few people, it appears that you may have chosen to do that, which of course is your right to do. However, what you see, in the lunch room or next door, is not necessarily what the truth of mormonISM is, just ask my mormon family.

[P-Marlowe]

But there isn't any alternative so far..

Prayer. And then be prepared to join in the GOP Mutiny. If we are going to steer the ship of state in the right direction we are going to need a new Captain. The Convention isn't done. We must DEMAND that Romney withdraw his name from the nomination and that he be replaced with a real honest conservative, not a phony knee jerk liberal who has no core convictions about anything other than his blood oath commitment to submit to the LDS Authority and his conviction that he will someday "high to Kolob" in his magic underwear and become a God like his Heavenly Father. (And you thought Scientology was weird).

Let the Mutiny begin.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“It’s tiresome frankly. For me personally, it is the single reason I’ve stopped contributing.”

Really. You can be stopped so easily?

[SZonian]

So one can be characterized as “impolite” if they don’t “ignore” it?

Hmmm, I think I’ll go with what the Bible has to vs. what others have to say on this topic...

Acts 20:28-31
New International Version (NIV)
28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.
29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.
30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.
31 So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.

[SZonian]

Much appreciated, thanks for your input and wisdom.

[muir_redwoods]

Was it not made personal when I was asked what my religion is? I feel my response was measured and restrained.

[ravenwolf]

If you are giving your son a dollar to go to the movies as a gift, you give him the dollar without conditions.
If you want him to work for the dollar to get this pretend gift, it is not given freely by you, it is conditional.
God’s gift to us is unconditional.

---

Thanks for the reply, i see it that way as far as regarding the law is concerned but when i read the scripture on the sheep and the goats i start thinking about the faith that are shown by the works.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“I’m not an ABO person. I proudly support Romney for President. I am a God, Family, Country, Life & Liberty conservative. “

Ha! Great one :-)

I can only ask , which God are you referring to?
What has milt done for life? Other than pay to have it snuffed out?
What has milt done to protect liberty? Ever?
What has milt ever done to serve his country? Ever?

[muir_redwoods]

And the main point is that my personal beliefs have no bearing on the salient issue that all religions require belief in things not subject to rational examination. That’s the reason I find Romney’s religion and its tenets irrelevant to any political discussion. Why is that so difficult to accept?

[greyfoxx39]

Polite people ignore the subject where it has no impact on them.

IMO, questioning someone's "upbringing" is hardly polite.

The comments about Christians and Christianity by these mormon leaders are definitely not polite.

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"Christians— those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about—some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers' sermons —preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born. ...You may get a Methodist priest to pour water on you, or sprinkle it on you, and baptize you face foremost, or lay you down the other way, and whatever mode you please, and you will be damned with your priest.

- Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 89


Prophet John Taylor (1808 - 1887):


"Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century."

- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 6, p. 167

"Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom."

- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 10, p. 127

"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast."

- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 225

"What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God."

- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 225


Apostle Orson Pratt (1811 - 1881):


"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the ‘whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent."

- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 255

"But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of Christian Churches ... But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance"

- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, v. 18, p. 172

“This class of men, calling themselves Christian, uniting with the various forms of the pagan religion, adopting many of their ceremonies and institutions, became very popular, and finally some of the pagans embraced Christianity and were placed, as it were, upon the throne, and what they termed Christianity became very popular indeed. How long has this order of things existed, this dreadful apostacy, this class of people that pronounced themselves Zion, or Christians, without any of the characteristics of Zion? It has existed for some sixteen or seventeen centuries. It has spread itself and grown and gone into the four quarters of the earth. It is the great ecclesiastical power that is spoken of by the revelator John, and called by him the most corrupt and most wicked of all the powers of the earth, under the name of spiritual Babylon, or in other words Babel, which signifies confusion. This great and corrupt power is also represented by John as presenting a golden cup to the nations, full of all manner of filthiness and abominations.”

- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, v. 14, p. 346

“But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be. They say, "We have built chapels unto the name of the Lord; we call our Churches Christian Churches, they are called the Church of Christ, St. John's Church, St. Paul's Church, St. Peter's Church, and after others of the ancient Apostles;" and one who had never studied the pattern which God has given of the Christian Church would almost really believe that they are Christian Churches. But there has been a long apostacy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance, and they are represented in the revelations of St. John as a woman sitting upon a scarlet colored beast, having a golden cup in her hand, full of filthiness and abominations, full of the wine of the wrath of her fornication; that in her forehead there was a name written—"Mystery, Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots." This kind of a church has existed in great abundance, for as John the Revelator says, she was to have her dominion upon many waters, and she was to make all nations drunken with the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”

- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, v. 18, p. 172

“Q. After the Church of Christ fled from earth to heaven, what was left? A. A set of wicked Apostates, murderers, and idolaters, who, after having made war with the saints, and overcome them, and destroyed them out of the earth, were left to follow the wicked imaginations of their own corrupt hearts, and to build up churches by human authority, and to follow after the cunning craftiness of uninspired men; having no Apostle, Prophet, or Revelator to inquire of God for them: and thus, because of wickedness, the Church, and Priesthood, and gifts, and ordinances and blessings of the everlasting Gospel, were taken from the earth, and reserved in heaven until the fulness of times, when it was predicted that they should again be restored among men to continue until the end should come.”

- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, Chapter 16, p. 205


Prophet Wilford Woodruff (1807 - 1898):


"The Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called"

- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 196


Apostle George Q. Cannon (1827 - 1901):


"After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon."

- Apostle George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, p. 324

Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls.”

- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, see pp. 45-46
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"...the Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable, ...But with the Bible it was not and is not so....it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization [Christianity], founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was."

- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13
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Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth."

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 6, p. 176
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"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world."

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 199
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"The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God"

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 171

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The above comments have NOT been refuted by current mormon leadership.

[svcw]

And yet here you are today, on the Religion Forum. ;-)