[jmacusa]

There isn't anything in the American Experience or psyche that there is in the Polish when it comes to Katyn. I've known and worked with many Poles and Katyn is something they can never forget or forgive. Few Americans know of the abject hatred Poles have for Russians.

[dfwgator]

One of my favorite Polish artists, Pawel Kukiz recorded this song about Katyn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6iZhif46Qg

English Translation

The first line, “Kurica - nie ptica, polsza nie zagranica” (An old Russian saying that was ‘A hen is not a bird, and Poland is not foreign’, which basically meant that Russians considered Poland to be a part of Russia)

Another round of vodka.
Before the next round
In the back of the head
And down the pit they go
Body on body in a pile
And Vanya will tread ‘em down
‘Cos the bulldozer’s bust.

So pour out another, Grisha,
To Vanya, with Russian cheers
‘Cos the bulldozer’s bust,
So many of them still to go,
And we’re getting sleepy and slow.

Work, work, too much work
The old man’s going mad,
And the weather’s getting bad,
And we’ve still so many to do,
My trigger finger’s aching,
The gun’s burning into my hand,
And how many more will they send?
We don’t get a moment’s rest.

Well, what’s up Grisha?
Not saying you’re sorry for ‘em?
“Kurica - nie ptica”
It’s only a Pole.

Let Vanya sprinkle a li’l lime
On that last heap,
Lime’ll let the memories off,
Then our consciences will sleep,
And then, the pain to ease
On top they’ll plant a grove of trees
The truth will never come out,
And Stalin will decorate each of us.

So many of ‘em still left,
What with the bulldozer bust,
Some still moving down below,
Drink down, Grisha, and let’s go.

[Cronos]

well, I live in Poland (but am not Polish, just married to one :) and I can tell you that Poles do not hate Russians. I've not met one Pole who hates the Russian people -- but the Russian state is a different matter.

I know it seems difficult to distinguish but Poles do distinguish between the Russian people (who also suffered terribly under the Tsar and hte communists) and the Russian (or rather Moscowite) political system

And, yes, they can never forgive Katyń -- or the Nazis. On 1 August at 5 pm here there is the anniversary of the Warsaw Uprising and everything and everyone in the city will stop for 2 minutes.

I even see teenagers putting the PW sign and Pamiętamy graffiti ("we remember") everywhere.

Katyń was a Muscowite aim to kill off the Polish intelligentsia and make the Poles as subservient as the Russian people were (Russia had been under tyrannical rule since the Mongols - the Muscowites inherited that) -- but they couldn't cow down the Polish spirit (there's a joke that if there are two poles there are 3 opinions and 5 political parties) -- Stalin himself said that to put communism on Poland is like putting a saddle on a cow

but in a way the sacrifice of the Poles ensured that communism would fall -- because Stalin was correct -- communism crumbled in Poland due to Pope John Paul II and Solidarność (Solidarity). They started it in 1979 and that ended with the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.

Poland with it's boisterous democracy which it has had for centuries is at complete contrast to the autocracy of Muscowy. THAT is the root of the dispute between Muscowy and Poland and there is no way to get around that...

[Cronos]

and the Polish history of fighting against oppressors goes back to the Swedish invasion. Imho they have the second best national anthem (after the Italians) in terms of tune and the best for lyrics:Mazurek Dąbrowskiego -- this was written after the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth was partitioned by Russia, PRussia and Austria

Jeszcze Polska nie zginęła,Kiedy my żyjemy. Co nam obca przemoc wzięła,Szablą odbierzemy.

Poland has not yet died while we are still alive. What the foreigners have seized from us, we will recapture with a sword!"

I also love their song Hej sokoły