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To: RaisingCain
"How about you show me a Greek Lexicon that says otherwise and prove yourself?"

I’ll see you one and raise you six more:

1) Walter Bauer’s Greek-English Lexicon “places 1 Cor. 3:15 as the example of where zemioo has the meaning of ‘be punished’”;

2) Gerhard Kittel’s, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, translated and abridged by Geoffrey W. Bromley, Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1985, p. 299:

1.a. Disadvantage may take the form of monetary or material "loss" or "damage." b. It may also be moral or spiritual in the sense of "hurt" or "ruin," with a subjective nuance of "unpleasantness”;

. . . The same sense [1.b.] is probable (rather than "penalty") in 1 Cor. 3:15 in contrast to the reward of v. 14. What is at issue is "hurt" or "loss" in a general sense, not in a financial sense or as loss of salvation;

3) Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, gives the meaning of zemioo as “generally, to punish”;

4) Louw-Nida’s Greek-English Lexicon, the “first, or primary, definition of zemioomai in 1 Cor. 3:15 is to‘suffer punishment;’”

5) Strong’s Greek Dictionary (http://strongsnumbers.com/greek/2210.htm) states the following definition of zemioo, “From zemia; to injure, i.e. (reflexively or passively) to experience detriment; be cast away, receive damage, lose, suffer loss”;

6) Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1977, word #2210, p. 272) defines zemioo in this passage as "to sustain damage, to receive injury, suffer loss”;

7) UBS Greek Dictionary states “the meaning of ‘be punished’ is the primary meaning of 1 Cor. 3:15.

Peace be with you

107 posted on 08/06/2012 10:39:27 AM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Natural Law

Here is the usage of “Zemioo” within the New Testament. Where Zemioo is used the word is bracketed:

“Mt 16:26 -
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and [lose] his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?”

Mark 8:36
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and [lose] his own soul?

Lu 9:25
For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and [lose] himself, or be cast away?

2Co 7:9
NowI rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might [receive damage] by us in nothing.

Php 3:8
Yea doubtless, and I count all things but [loss] for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the [loss] of all things, and do count them but dung, thatI may win Christ,

(In this one, Zemia is translated as the first loss, while Zemioo is the latter.)

Zemia, which is a noun form, is used here:

Ac 27:10
And said unto them, Sirs,I perceive that this voyage will be with hurt and much [damage], not only of the lading and ship, but also of our lives.

Ac 27:21
But after long abstinence Paul stood forth in the midst of them, and said, Sirs, ye should have hearkened unto me, and not have loosed from Crete, and to have gained this harm and [loss].

Php 3:7 -
But what things were gain to me, those I counted [loss] for Christ.

Now, let’s finally compare with 1 Cor 3:15

1Co 3:15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

It says “If... any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss:” He suffers “loss” if his works are burned.

In every usage given, the word Zemioo or its relatives is used to refer to a financial or a physical loss on persons or things belonging to persons. It is never used to say “to be punished” which is what your original claim was, though you changed that in your post.

You would have us believe that this scripture reads “if any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer punishment (to be punished).” However, the loss is obviously of his “works” that are burned, which fits with the pattern of its usage in all the other scriptures. It does not say that he will be punished, as you fantasize.

“1) Walter Bauer’s Greek-English Lexicon “places 1 Cor. 3:15 as the example of where zemioo has the meaning of ‘be punished’”;

2) Gerhard Kittel’s, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, translated and abridged by Geoffrey W. Bromley, Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1985, p. 299:”


I notice you do not quote the actual relevant section in those books on the word. Have you read these Lexicons? I tried searching to see the entire quote for myself but had no access to it. In the one you do quote, it does not say “to be punished.” It only reiterates what I have just told you.

“3) Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, gives the meaning of zemioo as “generally, to punish”;”


Can we see why Liddell and Scott make this claim, even though the word, generally, refers to loss,damage and so on and so forth and not “to punish?” I tried searching, and again it is not something I have access too. There was a 1883 edition, but it would not open and, secondly, it had no search feature with what little did open.

“5) Strong’s Greek Dictionary (http://strongsnumbers.com/greek/2210.htm) states the following definition of zemioo, “From zemia; to injure, i.e. (reflexively or passively) to experience detriment; be cast away, receive damage, lose, suffer loss””


So Strong’s Greek Dictionary agrees with me and not with you.

“6) Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1977, word #2210, p. 272) defines zemioo in this passage as “to sustain damage, to receive injury, suffer loss”;”


Another one that agrees with me. I think you’ve sniffed so much Popery that you’ve forgotten your original argument. Popery, like crack, it’s a hell of a thing.

“7) UBS Greek Dictionary states “the meaning of ‘be punished’ is the primary meaning of 1 Cor. 3:15.”


Does it say the meaning of the entire sentence is “to be punished?” Does it mean the word, in just that one instance, means “to be punished”? We can’t know, since again it is not a Lexicon you bothered to quote in its entirety and, apparently, is another one I can’t access without paying 69.99 for.


117 posted on 08/06/2012 6:58:03 PM PDT by RaisingCain
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