Posted on 10/12/2012 10:10:09 PM PDT by virgil283
Sorry, I HAVE studied history, and disagree with your church’s claims. The church has no scriptural basis in Rome. RCC just stores it’s treasures there!
Be sure and get into the first pew, if you can. I understand may be holier up there!
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<< Matthew 6 >>
New International Version 1984
Giving to the Needy
1“Be careful not to do your ‘acts of righteousness’ before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2“So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Prayer
5“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9“This, then, is how you should pray:
“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us today our daily bread.
12Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.a’
14For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Fasting
16“When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 17But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, 18so that it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Treasures in Heaven
19“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22“The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. 23But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
24“No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
Do Not Worry
25“Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his lifeb?
28“And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Where do you derive your authority to teach me, or any other Bible reader?
Isn't the Bible alone sufficient for all teaching?
I hear that from a lot of Protestants.
Where do you derive your authority to teach me, or any other Bible reader?
From my Friend and Comforter! Yours obviously comes from Rome!
John 14:25 "These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. ...
... 1Jn 2:26 I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you.
27 But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie--just as it has taught you, abide in him. ...
Eph 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, ...
What do you say to other Protestants, who may disagree with you on fundamental aspects of faith, who also claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit?
What a ridiculous question. I take communion with them. They are my brethren and sisteren (sic)... We love each other as family! It makes for an interesting dinner table.
It seems that using any source material to support your argument is too much for you, eh? You would prefer mere invective? Too bad. A fool brings in the “Jews in Spain” the way you did, since the Spanish Inquisition was run by the government of Spain, not the Church. And likewise, there were no “knights” of the Spanish Inquisition. Next time, instead of relying on spittle and sneering, try some facts.
Here’s one for you: If Luther had stuck to his original pronouncements, of attempting reforms of genuine issues, instead of what he eventually did, he might have ended up a saint. A few of his 95 theses were valid, and did indeed address things which were issues. Some were being addressed, but not forcefully enough, others needed address. But his flaws, like those of me, or you, were self-inflicted. He had free will, and he employed it, to whatever end he met. As I said before, one hopes he made a deathbed conversion, because it is to be hoped that all men are saved. That includes him.
From there, you conflated about the mafia and the Borgias. The mafia began in Sicily in the nineteenth century, four hundred years AFTER the Borgias. Don’t let history get in your way? That’s a democrat tactic.
There is NO buying salvation. What can you give God that He doesn’t already have? The Church has NEVER and will NEVER teach that. Buying salvation is the viewpoint of a person in the system of law, not grace. The Church teaches that good works in the system of grace are required for salvation, but that “works of law” (Rom. 3:28, Gal. 2:16) do not. When Adam disobeyed God’s law, God used the law to condemn us (Rom. 7:10). “Works of law” refer to the Mosaic law, or any system where we approach God as a debtor who owes us for our works (we call that “works righteousness”). We cannot approach God this way. Instead, we have to approach God in the system of grace, with faith in Christ, acknowledging that God owes us nothing, but, because He is a faithful Father, will reward us for our works. This is why James teaches that a man is justified by works and not faith alone, and why Paul says the doers of the law will be justified. These works refer to works in the system of grace, when we approach God with faith in Christ, and not works of law where we approach God as a debtor who owes us.
As to indulgences, your statement is incorrect. I could easily go over the passages in the Bible about confessing your sins, but since might involve copying and pasting, you might not enjoy it. Suffice it to say that when we confess our sins, and receive forgiveness for them we still owe temporal punishment for them. If you steal something from a store near your house, and you feel badly, you might be inclined to go to that store, and say you’re sorry. Then, you’d need to make amends. That’s the temporal punishment I mentioned. If I do something, and I go to the sacrament of Confession, and receive forgiveness, I still need to make amends. Indulgences are fairly uncommon these days, and only remit temporal punishment for sins already forgiven through the sacrament of Confession. Put another way, even if a person pursues receiving an indulgence of some sort, if they haven’t already been to Confession, confessed that particular sin and received absolution, then whatever indulgence would be involved has no effect.
You cannot buy salvation. You cannot buy forgiveness. Indulgences do not grant forgiveness of sins. But thank you for your straw man argument.
Child molestings? Spare me your drivel. I have five kids. You? I work with children literally every day. Shall we talk about the prevalence of molestations in protestant ecclesial communities or public schools? Nah? Your thinly-veiled canard is just that.
I can back up what I’ve said here. I copied and pasted in my earlier comment to support what I was saying. You replied with nothing but conflation and invective and ad hominem attacks. As I said, those are democrat tactics. What that says about you is not my problem, but yours.
You again? Buzz off. Whining to the mods must not have worked, eh, cuz I certainlyt didn’t and won’t issue any retractions. Your side drew first blood, you think we won’t come back with both barrels? If you can’t take the heat then stay out of the kitchen. The second you stepped into the ring you took the risk of getting knocked out so don’t whine like a little girl when you find your back on the canvas.
Face it. Catholics are taught from the grave about how to think. Their indoctrination would not be complete without nuns with rulers. While the education has been great, the indoctrination has been greater. What is the difference between any group that requires certain allegiance, unquestioning of their authority. Islam is VERY similar in structure... to the RCC. The MAN at the top is allegedly their god’s only spokesman. I have studied history, as well!
Rev 6:16
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
I think of the big religious organizations as these mountains.
The solitary belief that unites Oneness Pentecostals, Baptists, and Episcopalians, is the fact that they're not Catholic.
They don't even hold the doctrine of Sola Scriptura in common. But each man can define his own religion. Each man is his own pope. Rather than having one pope, there are millions.
Once again, you make an ignorant, bigoted statement. I find nothing in Scripture that confirms/affirms your trust in "church". I trust in Jesus! There is no POPE in the Bible...It only points to God! The Holy Spirit living in me gives me all the confirmation I need!
The solitary belief that unites CHRISTIANS is the fact that they're SAVED BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB!
...ROMANS 8:11 (NASB) But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. ...
"thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." --Jesus
"If he will not listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector." --Jesus
"For this is what the Church of the ever-living God is, and it is the pillar and foundation of the truth." --St. Paul
The church in Rome hasn’t changed much...
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Romans: 2 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares. ... -NIV
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