Posted on 10/29/2012 1:25:18 PM PDT by NYer
History ping!
[ Put another way, to be deep into history is to become stronger in the Catholic faith—something we are all called to do in this Year of Faith. ]
He must mean “in Roman Catholic Church History”..
Because accurate church history is much different.. much much different..
RCC church history is one thing, actual church history is something else..
There are some places where they both more or less agree somewhat but vast areas where they don’t agree..
Only way to know this is to read them both(all).. almost nobody does that..
I know that the RCC needs to support its hierarchy and dogma I appreciate that..
And other church historys needs to support some biblical view.. which they all say they do..
My point is their are several views of church history not just the RCC one..
WHOs RIGHT!... Ah! thats what dreams are made of..
Conevntional Wisdom (that is to say, the slander of Protestants and secularists) is that Vatican I was an incredible power grab of the papacy. The reverse is actually true: By delimiting the infallibility of the pope, all other matters of the church became open to ecclesiastical introspection. Which is not to say that all ecclesiastical introspection is valid, or that any challenges to theology which has not been doctrinally asserted is valid; it is a grave heresy, inconsistent with the magisterium, that any matter not infallibly resolved is questionable. Quite the opposite: Vatican I affirmed that deference must be made to tradition. One can deny with intellectual honesty theology which has not been ruled infallible, but which represents the current theological consensus any more reasonably than one can doubt any other science which represents the current scientific consensus.
To delve really deep into history and you’ll realize Martin Luther was not only right but only halfway through the tangled webs of deceit and confusion spun by the church he loved. To follow the Word of God or to follow church “tradition” is a choice we all have to make. They lead to different destinations.
Did you miss that?
Are you saying that you would rather believe in heresies than the truth?
“To be deep into history, John Henry Newman wrote, is to cease to be a Protestant.”
Ha! I JUST finished making a short reformation day workbook for my youngest to do on Wednesday. I read a lot of history. I am more a Protestant than ever.
Did I say that? No. I'm saying I believe more in the plain truths of the Bible than 100 of these self important councils. The Word of God trumps the councils and papal edicts any day of the week.
The Top Ten Most Important Church Councils
On the 50th Anniversary of the Second Vatican Council
Vatican II, 50 Years Later : The council brought great controversy, but eventually, a greater gift
It is the Decision of the Holy Spirit and Us….On the Council of Jerusalem...(Catholic Caucus)
Ecumenical Councils
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: General Councils of the Church, 1870-1962
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: General Councils of the Church, 1123-1545
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: General Councils of the Church, 49-870
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Acts 15 Model: General- Ecumenical Councils of the Church Universal
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Biblical Model for Handing On Truth and Refuting Error: Acts 15, The Council of Jerusalem
A Timeline of Catholic Church history, 1-500 A.D. (includes Councils, Canon of the Bible)
MAJOR COUNCILS OF THE CHURCH - 1st Council of Nicaea - 325 A.D. (1st in a series)
MAJOR COUNCILS OF THE CHURCH - 1st Council of Constantinople - 381 A.D. (2nd in a series)
MAJOR CHURCH COUNCILS - The Council Of Chalcedon - 451 A.D.
Perhaps the first Council of Carthage (AD 397) should also be included, because that’s where the books of the Bible were arranged in the order in which they exist today.
In the tautology of Protestant education there is a tendency to believe that Church doctrines emerged at the first Pentecost wholly intact awaiting only the Reformation to add their brilliance to it. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The Early Church Fathers taught that Catholic doctrine was more like a sculpture than a painting. Just as a stone must be challenged by a hammer and chisel to reveal the complete beauty hiding within it, Orthodoxy must be challenged by controversy and heresy to reveal the complete beauty previously hidden. It is not what the artist or the reformer adds to doctrine that strengthens and reveals it, but it is what is stripped away over time that reveals it.
Over time, each of the Councils stripped away heresy, error and uncertainty, adding to the understanding. They added nothing new, the Church doctrine was always there, it was just clouded.
Peace be with you.
To follow the Word of God or to follow church “tradition” is a choice we all have to make. They lead to different destinations.
Everyone who worships their own, Most High and Holy Self says their own personal interpretation of Scripture is the Word of God.
Therefore, everyone is right, no one is wrong, and no one can be wrong, because there is no authority other than personal authority.
Like Eve, all such folks see nothing wrong with modifying His Word here and there, interpreting things to fit their personal preconceptions, or even throwing portions of the Scripture into the trash, in order to rationalize whatever they want to do. Once people decide their personal authority trumps Scripture every time by granting themselves the final word in all matters of interpretation, they're at the very least on the fast track to Self Worship if they're not already there.
For example, prior to 1931, every single Protestant group taught that contraception was a sin. After 1931, they all reversed themselves and to this day teach that there's nothing wrong with contraception, much less that it's a sin.
Were all Protestants basing what they believe on Scripture as they were led by the Holy Spirit prior to 1931 and have now gone astray, or were they all wrong prior to 1931 but are now in agreement with Scripture and the Holy Spirit?
Or do the majority of history scholars believe that the Holy Spirit occasionally reverses what it is Truth the same way Mooze Lames say All Uugh does?
Here's a little history tidbit. In March of 1931, speaking to Catholics with regard to all Protestant groups, Bishop Fulton J Seen said, "Since a week ago last Saturday, we can no longer expect them to defend the law of God. These sects will work out the logic of their ways and in fifty or a hundred years there will be only the Church and paganism. We'll be left to fight the battle alone and we will.
It's about eight years since then and only The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church Jesus Christ Himself founded is still standing against paganism and the mass murder of infants with contraceptives.
He was right, no one can any longer count on folks who wake up one morning and teach the exact opposite of what they said was based on Scripture and the Holy Spirit the day before. Unfortunately for those who have fallen prey to the family of heresies Wycliffe and Luther spread, the Bible teaches that the Church is the rightful interpreter of Scripture which means that those who each interpret it for themselves are acting in direct opposition to the Word of God.
TTFN
Are you doing OK? Just stormy where you are, no huge drama I hope?
It's too bad that question of whether Protestants were in touch with the Holy Spirit when they interpreted Scripture prior to 1931 requires ultra enlightenment and ultra inspiration to answer. Mere enlightenment and mere inspiration, though, obviously doesn't count for too much given the fact that huge numbers of enlightened and inspired people approve of ordaining queers and even of marrying one queer to another.
So, while I was very interested in whether Protestants are right now or were right before they reversed themselves on contraception, it was good of you to agree that no one can be wrong when personal interpretation trumps Scripture itself.
Do you have these conversations with yourself much? Remember this my literary friend, one + God is always a majority.
Protestant bashing is a popular sport. How dare they only worship God through Jesus, don’t they read the Bible says you have to worship Popes, Bishops, Councils, Icons and weeping toast-Jesus??
Asking the sort of folks who claim their personal authority exceeds the authority of all Scripture a question is pretty much like talking to oneself..
I guess such folks can't rely on the Holy Spirit to lead them to the Truth so they go along with whatever spirit is hanging from a tree in their backyard.
Clarity in writing is not your long suit but I take this as a reprimand of sorts. I'm sure you are sincere in your beliefs and love your church very much. I disagree with much of what your church teaches but that doesn't mean I dislike you. God has a judgement coming and all will be judged individually NOT by denomination. Be prepared.
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