Posted on 01/06/2013 3:56:49 PM PST by NYer
Teddy did get a Catholic funeral.
Where do we see priests refusing communion to Catholic politicians who are democrat and support abortion and gay marriage?
COUNCIL OF TOULOUSE - 1229 A.D
Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; unless anyone from motive of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.
Source: Heresy and Authority in Medieval Europe, Edited with an introduction by Edward Peters, Scolar Press, London, copyright 1980 by Edward Peters, ISBN 0-85967-621-8, pp. 194-195, citing S. R. Maitland, Facts and Documents [illustrative of the history, doctrine and rites, of the ancient Albigenses & Waldenses], London, Rivington, 1832, pp. 192-194.
The Council of Tarragona of 1234, in its second canon:
“No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned lest, be he a cleric or a layman, he be suspected until he is cleared of all suspicion.” (-D. Lortsch, Historie de la Bible en France, 1910, p.14.)
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Imagine that........
In my post which you are referring to, I did not express any "philosophy" at all, nor did I express any kind of "self perceived wisdom".
I merely stated some simple facts, and asked you some simple questions. They can all be boiled down to their simplist forms, which I will repeat here.
The factual statements: God deliberately chose imperfect, weak, frail human beings as His instruments of communication to write every single Book in the Bible for Him (both in the "Old Testament" and in the "New Testament"). Not one single Book in the Bible was ever written where God did not specifically make use of an imperfect, weak, frail human being who God had specifically chosen for that communication task to write that Book.
Neither of those statements is a "philosophy" -- they are simply statements of fact. They are either true, or they are not true.
My question to you was/is, do you believe those statements are true, or do you believe they are not true?
My point is also a statement of fact that is either true, or not true, and simply says that God often chooses to delegate various tasks (which He can easily do on His own if He wills it) to imperfect, weak, frail human beings to perform. Do you deny that?
Unless you think Jesus was wrong or lying here.
Luke 11:1-4 Now Jesus was praying in a certain place, and when he finished, one of his disciples said to him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John taught his disciples. 2 And he said to them, When you pray, say: Father, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come. 3 Give us each day our daily bread, 4 and forgive us our sins, for we ourselves forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation.
Jesus HIMSELF taught us to go to the Father for forgiveness.
Jesus HIMSELF taught us to go to the Father for forgiveness.
Yes, He most certainly did, and He also told us in the verse just before the one you emphasized -- "...forgive us our sins..." -- to also ask Our Father to "Give us each day our daily bread", but He was NOT telling us to never go shopping for our food, or to never make use of grocers (or some other human beings) to get our daily bread (or to avoid human spiritual teachers for spiritual bread).
Do you just wait indefinitely for God to hand you your daily bread directly each day, or do you sometimes go out shopping for groceries through various other human beings?
Jesus said to them again, Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.
Then I showed you this proving they did just that.
Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; unless anyone from motive of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.
Which specifically refers to the Old or New Testament. Now you come up with there were many false scripture interpretations around at the time.? Are you kidding me? Canon 14 specifically states that We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament. Then it goes on to say we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.. Canon 14 is not restricting copies or translations that were false interpretations. It denied them having the books of the Old or New Testament period. Something you denied and are now trying to somehow bamboozle us into believing something different than truth. It aint working with those of us who do know truth.
We dont, we see hypocrites.
Acts 15:8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness by granting them the holy Spirit just as he did us. 9 He made no distinction between us and them, for by faith he purified their hearts.
Not if someone promises it to me as a gift, delivered daily.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Ephesians 2:4-10 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christby grace you have been saved 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
So, do you believe that the New Testament "Books" of the Bible were written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit?
If all of those other believers back them who "received the Holy Spirit" received exactly the same things from the Holy Spirit, are all their writings also inspired just like the writings that were included in the Bible, and should we seek all those other writings from all those other believers out, and add them to the Bible now?
Or, do you think that only some who received the Holy Spirit back then were actually chosen by God to write Sacred Scripture, and others who received the Holy Spirit were selectively singled out by God for other specific functions, such as ministerial priestly duties, or healing, and so forth?
\there are people on this and other threads who insist that you are automatically saved if you are born again....you are not. The only ones who seem to think that anyone believes it are the Catholics
But I thought you just said that the RCC didn't keep the Bible from the people.
for their own protection
riiiiiggghhhttt...
God keep us from those who would protect us from ourselves......
Unfortunately for you, that does not make it any less true.
YOU:
Who should we believe? The gospel according to you or to Luke?
I'll stick with the truth in Luke. Half baked ideas are better left in the cooker.
please wake up....for the first 1,600 years of church history there were Catholics...they were the church, they edited, transcribed, saved, loved and copied, by hand, the bible....there was no one else to do it. They are solely responsible for the bibles existance...if not them, then who.....think of how long 1,600 years is....from the year 413A.D. until now. That is a long time to be in charge of anything and remember, there was no one else doing it....only the Cathilics.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, who is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
So you see. The apostles were the ones who would write down what Christ taught them. Christ didnt teach all those others personally did He.
(None of that conflicts with Catholic doctrine.)
(Do you see anything in there that restricts how you confess your sins, or who you get your daily bread from, such as human grocers, or somehow restricts you from getting spiritual food and light through intermediate human sources, such as the human writers of the Gospels, or from human preachers, for example? I don't.)
I have to go now, but I'll try to check back tomorrow for your reply.
May God bless you abundantly.
Well, if you are born spiritually, which is what being born again is, you have spiritual life, so yeah, you ARE saved. Jesus taught as much in John 3 where He tells us we must be born again.
It we're not saved when we're born again, what's the point of he second birth? To go to hell anyway?
That cannot possibly be true, that there was no one else to do it. There was simply no one else they would allow to do it since they kept it out of the hands of the people.
They are solely responsible for the bibles existance...if not them, then who.....
Who? For real?
How about *God*.
Where would God be without the Catholic church to take care of things for Him.
/roll eyes....
Um, no. He’s not the Pope Benedict XVI, with whom we’ve been blessed, at this point in time.
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