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To: MeOnTheBeach
More than 3,000 people have died as a result of the strife in Northern Ireland.

Ireland is an area I overlooked. But 3,000 killed in 45 years hardly compares to, say, the Fourth Crusade, when fighting between Roman Catholic and Orthodox Christians killed tens of thousands.

21 posted on 01/10/2013 10:46:37 AM PST by Fiji Hill (Io Triumphe!)
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To: Fiji Hill
But 3,000 killed in 45 years hardly compares to, say, the Fourth Crusade,

Bit of a straw man there.

Regardless of the amount killed..the fact remains it happened and it was on going.

Again back to the OP, can this radical change in approach by these churches and a meshing of their acceptance of one another be considered a new church?
29 posted on 01/10/2013 11:02:18 AM PST by MeOnTheBeach
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To: Fiji Hill; MeOnTheBeach; Tzar
That was another tragic incident which was to a large extent more ethnic than religious.

Since the collapse of the Western Empire, the West had descended in the eyes of the East to utter barbarism

They stopped speaking the same language -- Latin was not understood in the 11th century in the East and very few in the West understood Greek, indeed the literacy levels in the West were abysmal compared to the East

Culturally and politically they were also quite distinct

The Venetians were the cause of the 4th C tragedy -- they were, until the 10th century a part of the Byzantine Empire and shrugged it off while keeping their trading ties

in time they became an economic rival to the Byzantines, keeping troops and colonies in Byzantine areas

The Byzantines, government and people, didn't like this and it lead to the "slaughter of the Latins" 10 years before the 4th C

Venice waited for its revenge -- it could not stand up to the Byzantines militarily, so it diverted the attention of the Germanic 4th crusaders to Byzantium

The Byzantines were appalled at the sight of the dirty, barbaric hordes from the west. Perhaps some of them compared these to the Caliphate who were Romanized and well, cleaner and wondered if it was worth it

Anyway, the westerners felt they were not treated well -- they were probably expecting to be treated as saviors, while they weren't treated that way and it took little for the Venetians to divert their attention and to sack Constantinople

This was among the most shameful of Christian on Christian acts and one for which I (who normally think apologizing for centuries past events is silly) fully agree with Pope JP II who begged for forgiveness for this.

As Christians we have shamefully not stood together and have fallen to the common enemy -- the 4th C and then in the Crimean War when Anglican England and Catholic France fought on the side of the Moslem Turks against our Christian brethren and in the 1683 siege of Vienna when Calvinist Hungarians fought on the side of Moslem Turks against Catholic Hungarians, Austrians, Poles-Lithuanians-Ruthenians, Croats etc. (just as a historical note -- the Moslem Tartars fighting in the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth army were very loyal in the fight against the Turks even though they even shared a similar language - Turkic)

52 posted on 01/11/2013 1:38:23 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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