[HarleyD]

I wonder why Jesus never taught on the 5 points.

Hmmmmm.....

Total Depravity...

Mar_7:21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery,

Joh 5:39-40 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

Luk_11:13 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

Unconditional Election...

Joh 10:16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.

Joh_15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

Limited Atonement...

Joh 15:24-25 If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin, but now they have seen and hated both me and my Father. But the word that is written in their Law must be fulfilled: 'They hated me without a cause.'

Joh_9:41 Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, 'We see,' your guilt remains.

Irresistable Grace...

Joh 10:3 To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.

Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Preseverance of the Saints...

Joh 10:28-29 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

Joh 8:36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

These are just a few of the verses. I wouldn't be so hasty to say such a thing. One of the things I've learned is that you cannot truly understand the book of John without understanding the TULIP.

[BereanBrain]

HarleyD,

I challenge YOU to look for verses that CONTRADICT your beliefs about the 5 points.

For example, Limited Atonement. Could I make a suggestion? Look for verses about the will of God. For example that none should perish.
Or try John 3:16 or Romans 5:8

God has the RIGHT to have created vessels (man) for destruction. This is what scripture says. It also says we have no right to question his will or motives. What it also clearly says is that God’s will is that NONE should perish and that he LOVED the WHOLE world so much he sent his only begotten Son.

God’s gift is Salvation...It is NOT his FORCED WILL upon a robot. So GRACE is RESISTABLE. Look in Romans chapter 1 — what happens to people who continually reject God? He leaves them to their own devices — is this not having resisted Grace?

As far as total depravity, we are depraved, but we long for something different. There is a God shaped whole in our heart. A hole is NOTHING. ZERO. Which is also what we can accomplish on our own toward salvation.
We have to GIVE up and let God save us....This is NOT the same as the traditional Total Depravity point, but similar.

Lastly, I revere John, and Paul and all the other disciples teaching because of the way they lived and died after Jesus...the way they treated their enemies (or people who wanted to be their enemy). Now read about John Calvin and how he handled his opponents. He could have spoke out and spared their lives. He did not (google Michael Servetus)

So it you want to defend the 5 points via scripture, how do you handle the scriptures that contradict your points?

If you are truly interested in the truth, you must examine the whole scripture, and we know scripture cannot be broken, so then, if there exist a theory (like the 5 points) that does not agree with a scripture, therefore it MUST be wrong.

Unless of course, you place more trust in “Institutes” than the “Holy Bible”