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To: DouglasKC

I think you are confusing the definition of the word “person” when used in reference to the Godhead, as it is different from the “person” used when talking about mankind. Sometimes a single word has multiple meanings (look in any dictionary).

Let me attempt to describe how there is harmony in the scriptures.

When you and I talk about an person, we are really taking about a man/woman. Now how does that person exist? He exists three-fold. That is, he/she exists a a physical being, a soul, and a spirit.

Do you remember God saying to Adam and Eve “in the day you eat thereof, you shall surely die.”? But did Eve die when she ate the apple? Yes. She suffered at that point spiritual death. We lost the ability to naturally commune with God because we are spiritually dead (we are no longer in the image of God, we are missing our spirit).

So mankind was originally designed a Triune creature, in the image of God.

Romans 1:20 says the entire creation testifies to God’s eternal nature and Godhead. So let’s take that verse as the truth that all scripture is, and amplify it.

Space exists in three dimension (X,Y,Z). If you have any less than 3 dimensions, your total volume of the universe would be ZERO. Once you add the third dimension (any will do), the volume of the universe is INFINITE.
Time exists as Past, Present, and Future. Without any of those three, could not exist.
Matter exists in three natural states (liquid, solid, gas), which itself is made up of protons, neutrons, elections.

Now consider that each of these “threes” Space, Time, Matter themselves add up to one thing, our whole universe!

Now to the word person, from the greek persona, which implied an appearence as in a mask an actor might wear on a stage. Not that God is trying to deceive, but that the same God appears to us differently.

Like in our universe, Height looks different than Depth, which looks different from Length — does that mean the universe is trying to trick us?
No, there is a difference, but the SUBSTANCE is the same, and each is infinite.

So when I die, and my body is gone, I still exist, at least my soul does, until I receive my (new) glorfied body, and my new spirit.

For now, I am stuck in this old decaying body, with my eternal soul, with a dead human spirit, but am counseled and indwelled by the Holy Spirit, by who I am made alive again.

Without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, my soul would continue to wither and corrupt itself. But with the Holy Spirit, it will renew my mind (soul).

So this is my defense of a true understanding of the Trinity.

No, I am not a “oneness” person. Oneness believes come from trying to understand God by human reasoning like “how can three things be one thing?”. God create the WHOLE UNIVERSE as three in one. That’s what Romans 1:20 implies.

It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings.


46 posted on 01/23/2013 8:47:58 PM PST by BereanBrain
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To: BereanBrain
When you and I talk about an person, we are really taking about a man/woman. Now how does that person exist? He exists three-fold. That is, he/she exists a a physical being, a soul, and a spirit.

I think it's important to define these so there's no misunderstanding in further discussion. The best way is to look at a verse that mentions the creation of man.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

This is the King James version. First God makes man (the physical). Then he breathes life into him. Then he BECOMES a living soul.

Let's start with "soul". Scripture says that man BECOMES a living soul.

"Soul" is the hebrew "nephesh". It means a living, breathing creature. This isn't the first time it's used in scripture though. The first time is here:

Gen 1:20 Then God said, "Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens."

"Creatures" is the same word translated "soul". The next three verses also use the word and translates it "creature" . It's meaning here is any kind of animal that lives and breathes, including man as we see later. It apparently doesn't extend to the plant world.

So biblically a "soul" IS any creature that lives and breathes. It doesn't become a soul until it is alive and sustained by the spirit of God.

We're not talking about the holy spirit here that indwells in Christians, but about the spirit of life, given from God, that makes everything alive. When that spirit is withdrawn things that were alive die.

That's because there is nothing immmortal about our soul. We are only a soul because the spirit of God sustains us. When that breath of life is withdrawn, we die. We cease to be a soul.

Note that man does not become alive in any sense until God breathes life into him. Up until then he's a dead, inert, hunk of perfectly formed flesh.

The life that God breathes into him is his spirit. It's the same spirit that keeps everything living on earth alive. It's the engine that keep everything physically alive.

BUT when that spirit or breath leaves, living things die.

Gen 6:17 And behold, I Myself am bringing floodwaters on the earth, to destroy from under heaven all flesh in which is the breath of life; everything that is on the earth shall die.

Do you remember God saying to Adam and Eve “in the day you eat thereof, you shall surely die.”? But did Eve die when she ate the apple? Yes. She suffered at that point spiritual death. We lost the ability to naturally commune with God because we are spiritually dead (we are no longer in the image of God, we are missing our spirit).

I think scripture means exactly what it says here. Adam and Eve had an abundant supply of God's spirit that not only kept them alive, but overcame corruption and death. When they sinned, they lost access to that abundance and had only the same breath of life common to all creatures. When they sinned, they literally began to die that day. It was a slow steady march to death, but it was real, physical death that was inevitable and predicted by God.

So mankind was originally designed a Triune creature, in the image of God

I would agree that he was designed in the image of God because of the duality built into the physical world including our bodies, genders and relationships. But based on scripture there was no thought of building "three" creation. Space exists in three dimension (X,Y,Z). If you have any less than 3 dimensions, your total volume of the universe would be ZERO. Once you add the third dimension (any will do), the volume of the universe is INFINITE.
Time exists as Past, Present, and Future. Without any of those three, could not exist.
Matter exists in three natural states (liquid, solid, gas), which itself is made up of protons, neutrons, elections.
Now consider that each of these “threes” Space, Time, Matter themselves add up to one thing, our whole universe!

In this case I think you've repeated a conclusion that seems logical but is based on fault or non-provable suppositions.

For example matter can exist in 4 or 5 states depending on the application. Plasma is usually considered the 4th state.

Protons and neutrons are now thought to be made up of quarks or perhaps even smaller elements.

Time is an uknown element full of speculation especially when it comes to perception of past, present and future.

The universe is thought to be made of many many dimensions, most of which we're not capable of seeing.

So to my understanding it's not clear and obvious to get "three" out of nature and use it prove the existence of a triune God. However as was shown in a previous post, 2 screams out at us.

47 posted on 01/24/2013 6:28:40 AM PST by DouglasKC
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