I thought holy was kind of simple. “Set apart for a purpose”
Before I get into my answer...
I am with you on Iron sharpening iron. Interestingly, it’s a phrase that leaves my lips at least once a week if not almost daily, especially this last year or so. However, I don’t really have the time when I am posting here (I’m actually at work right now). But here goes...
I also have been to many different churches and my position has signficantly changed on a number of issues since first being led to the Lord after reading Hal Lindsey’s 1980’s, Countdown to Armageddon. I joined an assembly of God church, I became a strong pre-tribulationist with a strong interest in bible prophesy, drove the church bus, played trombone in the church orchestra and ran the church sound board. This was a church with about 2,000 members. After 18 years I had to leave the church because my then wife became part of an epidemic of women there who divorced their husbands without cause - all using the same attorney. That is a story for another thread.
Only two years after becoming a Christian I became a “mid-tribulationist” (More precisely called “pre-wrath” and about two years ago I became a believer in the “Non believers go to eternal annihilation rather than eternal torment. I changed my position on both issues as I studied the bible and learned of the nature of God through prayer, study, my relationship with Him and observation.
And since leaving that AG church, I’ve attended Christian, non-denominational, “none”, foursquare and Baptist churches. We left Seattle in 2011 and after attending several churches, settled into a local baptist church.
They love our being there because I am actively involved as a sunday school student, but I ask tough questions. And sometimes “established” members bristle. An example would be after I taught a class, someone mentioned something about interpretations and I shared with them my views on how non-believers would spend eterinity. This one member got very agitated. I simply asked questions and his face got redder and redder and finally he held up his old and marked up bible and said “I believe the word of God”. My closing remark was “you believe your interpretation of it”. I said that because he quoted one or two scriptures and ignored everything I brought up.
I’m reminded of what my old pastor once said: Most people, on becoming a Christian, study and learn for the first year or two, solidifying their beliefs. They then spend the rest of their life searching the bible only to support those beliefs. They don’t grow.
And worse, going from a relatively unchurched area to the bible belt I’ve discovered there are a lot more people going to church here because “that is what you do” rather than because they are followers of Christ. The fellow I purchased my home from is a devout believer. He was hired as pastor of a church in the area and was fired after about two years. The reason? He had the same challenges I had with this one guy. In his case he was trying to actually TEACH THE BIBLE and the old-timers (and biggest contributors) were not looking for that. There were people in that church in their 70’s and 80’s that had been going there their entire lives and did not know the difference between the old and new testaments.
He was trying to change that.
And I am with you on the Daniel “book” study. It is what our sunday school does. I’d rather do a “topic” study. e.g. I’d LOVE to do an open minded study on eternal life - and the word “holy”.
Which brings me to my “epiphany”: I believe that the bible teaches that the earth is basically satan’s domain for now and Holy does, in fact, mean “set apart for a purpose”. That is supported by the concept of us being “in, but not of the world”. And holy ground? The epiphany? That particular spot of ground was, in fact, NOT part of satan’s realm. It was as if a point in space just above the ground spread out to create a sphere 100 feet in diamater or so and everything in that area was NOT part of the world that is satan’s domain.
It goes deeper than that, but I think you get my drift.
I’ve always had a problem with the word “holy”. It is one of those religios words that people don’t really think about - it’s actual meaning, that is. But when one applies the “set apart” aspect to the “this world is satan’s world for now” aspect, it suddenly makes sense to me, regardless of what it is applied to. i.e. anything called holy is of God, is Gods, and is set apart for His purpose, even if it is the dirt Moses walked at Mt. Sinai. Dirt which, btw, is no longer holy. The “God presence” sphere was removed.
I agree that this thread makes light of what it shouldn’t. But I also think the Left Behind books are setting people up for severe disappointment and a “great falling away” when they find themselves still fogging a mirror when people are taking the mark. People need to do more than just read some guy’s book. They need to prayerfully study and consider what the bible says.
The books can spark an interest, bring up good questions and even offer some insight and answers, but that is only the beginning. It is up to the reader to do their own search. It’s what happened to me when I became a “mid-tribulationist”. My sunday school teacher was very knowledgeable about the bible and taught a very large and popular sunday school class. He had written a white paper on the pre-tribulation rapture. He gave me a copy after I read the mid-trib info. As a fairly new Christian I was very excited that I would be given proof to support the position that most would want to believe - that we would avoid the “mess” in the end. But his arguments fell flat. The more I read, the more I realized he was performing logical gymnastics to interpret scripture to support his vision, while the other viewpoint (mid-trib) not only had much more plain scripture to support it, but even more worked with the way God deals with believers in both the new and old testaments.
And 30 years later the same thing happened regarding my beliefs about the eternal consequences of not accepting Jesus. I believe there will be awakenings like this for the rest of my life. There are so many things we think we “know” about God and His word but, in reality, we’ve never really studied them all that hard. Last week the Sunday school teacher threw out a list of things including “having church in someone’s home” as things “God is not pleased with”. Huh?!
But that is a discussion for another day. That, and the fact that I live in a dry county and my church believes that all drinking is sin...
Two footnotes:
1. I caught Hal Lindsey in a bald faced lie in his book “A prophetic walk through the holy land”. I have not followed him for decades, nor did I ever buy a lot of his end times stuff (though it sparked study on my part) but he DID bring me to the Lord.
2. On the two major topics I discussed, a couple of early links:
http://www.watchmanbiblestudy.com/BibleStudies/Definitions/PreTrib.htm
And for what it’s worth, for many years I compared our country to ancient Rome in its last days. In fact, I bought my farm in central KY in October of 2008 in the spirit of Revelation 18:4 and moved here from Seattle in August of 2011. But as of only about two weeks ago I no longer compare us to ancient Rome. I now compare western civilization to Babylon. I should have been all along. My error was being US-centric in my viewpoint.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2240648/posts
That is definitely what I mostly see, stagnation and ignorance. I am pleased to hear that you have been open and searching enough to change your position. It is difficult, I have been there. I especially congratulate you on converting to eternal annihilation. In many "conservative" churches you would not be allowed to be a member, and may not even be welcome for believing that one. Changing a belief based on deep personal bible study to something that poses a social risk is even more commendable.
You said: There are so many things we think we “know” about God and His word but, in reality, we’ve never really studied them all that hard.
Based on that statement I'll recommend something to you that I have been wanting to do with someone. First though, let me give you some reason/context.
You mention "this world is satan's for now". That concept is claimed to be taught by the verses I mentioned earlier, even though they dont teach it. It obviously depends on two things. What is satan and what is world.
World in many of these type of uses is not at all talking about the orb we call earth. It is kosmos, the current order of things. The bigger picture is VERY important here. There are two systems or kingdoms if you will. Christ's/Gods, and an earthly succesion of kingdoms which God raised up to put his people in subjection for seven times because of their sin. These kingdoms are amply discussed in Daniel and Revelation and revealed in history.
The earth, as in the planet is God's; every square inch. He has declared its purpose, some of which I quoted earlier. But the beastly succesion of world kingdoms, believers have been in, but not of.
So my challenge or recommendation to you is to test for yourself the one part of your statement doing a topic study. Write for yourself seven to ten things you know about Satan without looking at any scripture. I expect the list would contain the typical teachings. Then, you examine scripture and PROVE to yourself that these are actually true. Don't just look to validate what you believe. Examine each passage, consider views which disagee with what you have been taught and see if you can support what you "know". Remember to look at the passages which use the same Hebrew word sawtawn but are not translated as satan.
Among other things you may be surpised to learn that satan is: an angel of the Lord, the LORD, and many named human men. Particularly interesting is Rev 12. Many will cursorily reference this to teach things about satan. Yet since neither they nor their listeners have any idea of what Rev. 12 is talking about, they really are making nonsensical arguments.
Let me get back more to the original prophetic stuff. I think Daniel 2 makes this so simple, when one doesn't try to pervert the natural reading with a parenthetical church age.
Virtually everyone agrees on the 4 successive earthly kingdoms, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. Rome is in existence when the 4th kingdom appears, grows and smashes the 2520 year(seven times) dynasty of beastly empires. Several key stages of the destruction of Babylon have ALREADY taken place. The empire that struck the image on the feet already exists, and history clearly indicates who it was that accomplished this. Only historical ignorance, biblical ignorance and willful blindness prevent the truth from being accepted universally.