In Defense of the Papacy: 9 Reasons True Christians Follow the Pope

stpeterslist ^ | February 21, 2013 | HHAMBROSE

[boatbums]

You read things too literally. Teachings of the Pope means Peter and his successors both the oral and written traditions as well as revelation and tradition. Scripture tells that there were many things that Christ said and did that were not written down.

No, Scripture does NOT say Jesus said many things not written down, only that Jesus DID many things that HAD they been written down, it would take up ALL the resources of the world to contain them - obviously speaking of the full knowledge of God:

Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written. (John 21:25)

Rome has used the verse in John, however, to justify their declaring ANYTHING they can think of to being part of those "things" Jesus did and include them as part of the "tradition" to be held as valid as Holy Scripture. The Apostle John mentions in his gospel that Jesus said to them:

And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning. (John 15:27)

That is why John says:

The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. (John 19:35)

And then ends with the words about the things Jesus did and leaves us with the reason why John wrote down what he did:

This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true. (John 21:24)

And, prior to this, he said - after the resurrection:

Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (John 20:30-31)

My contention is that what matters to our salvation HAS been written IN Scripture and NOTHING has been omitted that must be filled in by "theologians" centuries later. The Bible is the authority because it is GOD-breathed. Trusting in sinful, fallible men to tell us what God saw fit to record for us as well as giving each of us His Holy Spirit, who would teach us all things, is foolish. The "illiterate" fishermen Jesus called to be His Apostles sure didn't STAY that way and everything Christ revealed to them, has been preserved for us to this day. The Holy Spirit is the same.

[boatbums]

What an odd reply regarding such a key tenet of your faith. You’d think a list of infallible, ex cathedra statements, rare and brief as you say, would be chiseled in stone somewhere amongst the statues and reliquaries. Or, might it be that there is no approved list of infallible, ex cathedra statements because papal infallibility only became doctrine in 1870?

I think one of those "rare" statements was in 1870 when the Pope declared, ex-cathedra, that whatever the Pope declared ex-cathedra was infallible. So Rome infallibly declared that she was infallible. That's why one Pope can proclaim that nobody can be saved who is not a Roman Catholic and subject to the Pope and a future Pope can say, "Nevermind. He didn't say it officially.".

[PeevedPatriot]

it sometimes seems like there's a whole lot of autoimmune inflammation going on!

Yes. I can't imagine the Lord is pleased with bickering children. Or what at times seems to be our intent to wound each other.

IMHO too many Catholics are unmindful of CCC numbers 817-819, 1267, 1271 (forgot to reference 1271 in my above comment to you). I'm not suggesting that you are. Just that we as a group often are.

Peace be with you.

[PeevedPatriot]

and 838 :)

[Mrs. Don-o]

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter." Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church." With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."

I consider myself "certainly, but imperfectly Catholic" as well.

+{{{:o)

[Zionist Conspirator]

seeing that Catholics basically copied, edited, arranged, and saved the bible for posterity, why on earth would you say that they reject anything in it......they BROUGHT IT TO YOU....or you wouldn't have it at all!!!!

1)The Jews brought the Bible to the world. In fact, they are still hand-copying Torah Scrolls exactly as G-d instructed them to do at Sinai, preserving the Word of G-d faithfully. All the Catholic and other chrstian churches have ever done is corrupt and twist it.

2)It is a simple fact that the vast majority of Catholics, including practically all the clergy, regard the Bible as primitive mythology written by "stone-age savages." Genesis is regarded as having been adapted from ancient Babylonian and Canaanite mythology. And since today is Purim, I'll throw in that they also reject the historicity of the Book of Esther.

Read the commentary in any Catholic bible (other than reprints of the Douay-Rheims) and you will read all this blasphemous nonsense. Furthermore, your co-religionists are always attacking the historicity of the Bible on this forum. Why don't you argue with them?

[Iscool]

I’m sorry that you do not believe the people who knew the apostles, the Early Church Fathers.

Yes, Simon Peter Magus knew the Apostles...

[Syncro]

You read things too literally.

It was pretty clear. If popes's don't want to be taken seriously, they should speak what they mean and that should be that.

Or if you are speaking of me taking you literally, let me know which statements you really didn't mean.

Scripture tells that there were many things that Christ said and did that were not written down.

You are getting scripture mixed up with tradition. It's been pointed out to you that your statement is not scriptural.

All scripture is God breathed, if God wanted it written down, it would have been written down.

Believing the Catholic tradition that there were other things said by Jesus is fine, just don't assume that the Catholic church is supposed to fill in the blanks with no proof.

[Syncro]

...you fill in the blanks

LOL, that's the Catholic denomination's field of "expertise."

It's called tradition, highly respected as even more important than scripture.

Christians stick with God's word as breathed by the Holy Spirit.

[Syncro]

Thanks boatbums, very informative post.

[Iscool]

Pope Pius IX in his teaching on "invincible ignorance" pretty much destroyed the interpretation that Unam Sanctum meant that non-Catholics cannot be saved. Pius IX pointed out that it was possible for one to

honestly not realize that the Catholic Church is Christ's Church, despaite the evidence ("invincible ignorance") and yet
still be saved, although without being a member of visible Catholic Church.

So all those countless numbers of dead Christians thru-out the Dark Ages at the hands of the Catholic religion for not bowing down to a pope was kind of an 'OOPS' moment for your religion???

I don't think so...I knowingly and willingly reject your religion and its leaders as a 'false' Christianity (while acknowledging there are Christians within the folds) and have no fear whatsoever that I may not be a genuine Christian...

[Syncro]

That's why one Pope can proclaim that nobody can be saved who is not a Roman Catholic and subject to the Pope and a future Pope can say, "Nevermind. He didn't say it officially."

If a pope says something, it should be the truth and unchanging. Ex Cathator or not.

I like the part where a pope decided that what they say is infallible.

The hypocrisy is deep and wide.

[Iscool]

Scripture tells that there were many things that Christ said and did that were not written down.

Not it doesn't...Why do you misquote scripture to justify a false teaching...Is that the quote your religion teaches you???

[Iscool]

“VERY TRUE!!!!...except when he speaks ex cathedra....then he is protected by the Holy Spirit from error.....not my idea, Christ’s!!”

Hm...could you please point out the Scripture(s) that very clearly says this? Because I do not think I have ever ready anything like this in my Bible.

That's because it's not in the Bible...It's part of their 'tradition'....See how that works???

HaHaHaHaHa...

[Syncro]

SOP

[Iscool]

not a stretch at all, and the "chair" is not where he sits....a proclamation from the chair of Peter means that the pope is speaking ex cathedra....officially, not expressing an opinion. He could be standing, writing, whatever....when he issues a statement OFFICIALLY....FROM THE "CHAIR OF PETER" it cannot be in error.

You are mistaken...I find it interesting that other Catholics will not correct you on this so I guess I have to...

There IS a chair...A Catholic Throne that is designed for the purpose of the pope leading from and doing his ex-cathedra thing...

Your current pope had it removed but not so very long ago, he had the 'throne' put back in place...Presumably so the next winner can do his thing from that throne...

[Steelfish]

Keep displaying your ignorance.

John 21:25

Douay-Rheims Christian Community
25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written. But Jesus did many other things; if all were written down, the world itself would not hold the books recording them.

[BlueDragon]

Keep displaying your ignorance.

Keep displaying your own invincibility in the same? well that, and much else...

[yes I realize that's getting personal --- but you started it, so no whining]

As was pointed out, there is no mention of things he (Christ) said not being "written down".

The notables from amongst the early church defeated various gnosticisms, by use of scripture, using what had been written down, not by substitution of some vague allusions to esoteric knowledge that they themselves had had transmitted to them...that is, until within Tradition™ itself, by dribs and drabs, and subtle shifts of definitions & applications, that very thing can be seen to have developed.

[Steelfish]

You want to split atoms between words and actions? I wonder what counts for more.

[BlueDragon]

Thank you for the incoherent reply.