[stanne]

The TLM Mass I once attended recently, is a bad memory. There was no comprehension at all of what was happening on the altar and the church building was not only the ugliest churches I’ve been in (see “the Cube and the Cathedral”, G. Weigel, it was the ugliest building I’ve been in. So, as we in the congregation were ignored as participants - excluded, really- there was nothing to meditate on, but ugliness.

I would not call it reverent.

There is a novus ordo mass across town. We go when we can. The priest is reverent, not because it is latin, but because he is reverent. He is so when he says Mass in the vernaculr, english.

When people say they’re bored in Mass I tend to perhaps unfoundedly, perhaps not, but from long experience, that there is a lot more to the situation.

Latin isn’t good because it is reverent, but it isn’t bad because it’s mumbled. Where a priest is reverent, the congregation is reverent, and vice versa.

Latin is the language of the Catholic Church, with all respect and reverence due Vatican II which certainly does not obstruct Latin, as seen today when the college of cardinals enthusiastically prayed the rosary in latin en masse.

But mumbled latin is no more latin than is unintelligible english, english.

[NYer]

Where a priest is reverent, the congregation is reverent, and vice versa.

I totally agree! My pastor is young, monastic and humble. When he says the Prayer of Elevation, his eyes focus upwards and our eyes are drawn as well. He is totally immersed in the worship.

Latin is the language of the Catholic Church

Correction: Latin is the official language of the Latin Church.

Catholic Church

Although it is not widely known in our Western world, the Catholic Church is actually a communion of Churches. According to the Constitution on the Church of the Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, the Catholic Church is understood to be "a corporate body of Churches," united with the Pope of Rome, who serves as the guardian of unity (LG, no. 23). At present there are 22 Churches that comprise the Catholic Church. The new Code of Canon Law, promulgated by Pope John Paul II, uses the phrase "autonomous ritual Churches" to describe these various Churches (canon 112). Each Church has its own hierarchy, spirituality, and theological perspective. Because of the particularities of history, there is only one Western Catholic Church, while there are 21 Eastern Catholic Churches. The Western Church, known officially as the Latin Church, is the largest of the Catholic Churches. It is immediately subject to the Roman Pontiff as Patriarch of the West. The Eastern Catholic Churches are each led by a Patriarch, Major Archbishop, or Metropolitan, who governs their Church together with a synod of bishops. Through the Congregation for Oriental Churches, the Roman Pontiff works to assure the health and well-being of the Eastern Catholic Churches.

While this diversity within the one Catholic Church can appear confusing at first, it in no way compromises the Church's unity. In a certain sense, it is a reflection of the mystery of the Trinity. Just as God is three Persons, yet one God, so the Church is 22 Churches, yet one Church.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church summarizes this nicely:

"From the beginning, this one Church has been marked by a great diversity which comes from both the variety of God's gifts and the diversity of those who receive them... Holding a rightful place in the communion of the Church there are also particular Churches that retain their own traditions. The great richness of such diversity is not opposed to the Church's unity" (CCC no. 814).

Although there are 22 Churches, there are only eight "Rites" that are used among them. A Rite is a "liturgical, theological, spiritual and disciplinary patrimony," (Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches, canon 28). "Rite" best refers to the liturgical and disciplinary traditions used in celebrating the sacraments. Many Eastern Catholic Churches use the same Rite, although they are distinct autonomous Churches. For example, the Ukrainian Catholic Church and the Melkite Catholic Church are distinct Churches with their own hierarchies. Yet they both use the Byzantine Rite.

To learn more about the "two lungs" of the Catholic Church, visit this link:

CATHOLIC RITES AND CHURCHES

Aramaic, the language of Jesus, Mary and the Apostles, is the official liturgical language of the Maronite Catholic Church.

Its Patriarch, Bechara Boutros Cardinal Rai is a voting member of the conclave.

Also present as a voting member of the conclave is

Mor Baselios Cardinal Cleemis of the Syro-Malankara Catholic Church, that also retains Aramaic for the Consecration. Both were elevated at the "surprise" November consistory. When Cardinal Cleemis received the Vatican notification of his elevation to cardinal, here is how he responded.

“On receiving the letter I straight away went to St. Peter’s Basilica, to Peter’s tomb and I knelt down and prayed. And then I spent an hour at the tomb of Blessed John Paul II, who in fact appointed me as bishop in 2001, at the age of 42. Then after praying the rosary there I went to St. Mary Major, this is a place that gives me a lot of consolation, strength and confidence where I can pray unnoticed by anyone”.

The presence of both these cardinals in the conclave is a critical component in reminding the Latin Rite cardinals that the Catholic Church breathes with 2 lungs. They will no doubt raise their voices with regard to the catastrophic decimation of christians in the Holy Lands and Middle East. The Catholic Church is universal.

[pbear8]

You are certainly correct, Latin is not the answer to everything. However, yesterday when praying with the Cardinals in Rome, I found the Latin made the universality of the Church so evident. It was wonderful to pray with them the rosary in Latin and sing the Marian anthem of the season and Tantum Ergo of course.

In one sense, we are in an ideal situation here. For, though we are in the belly of the beast, God, in his Mercy and Wisdom, has given us two readily available TLMs which we are so grateful to attend. And, yes, the priests are excellent men. I grew up under +Roger Mahony though so I know what it is to suffer.

I was young when I read the actual translation of the Roman Canon, I was struck by the beauty and humility of the words and I felt cheated by the ICEL NO. That we are participating in a Sacrifice is so much clearer to me and the Latin has never been an issue.

We are welcome to sing the opening and closing hymns as well as the Ordinary and I enjoy that, I never see anyone praying the rosary during Mass but likely many of the older members used to in the past. It is helpful that our chapel is beautiful and the community is friendly and grateful to have what we have.

Last week a friend was in town and wanted us to meet at our territorial NO parish. This we did. It was great to see all our old friends there but, though we had fulfilled our Sunday obligation, we decided to go the the TLM as well. When I opened the door, it smelled right with the lingering scent of incense, I was filled with happiness.

Everyone is a in different place in their journey, of course, and we all have varied experiences but we can pray that the Holy Spirit will give us another man who will inspire reverence and joy in our priests and in us.