Pastor Mike Hoggard of Bethel Church - A LIAR and FALSE PROPHET!

ConstitutionallySpeaking ^ | March 10, 2013 | ConstitutionallySpeaking

[patlin]

The KJV only evangelists are wholly mislead.

[delacoert]

The KJV only evangelists are wholly mislead.

But you don't judge. You only speak the Word of God in power.

[vpintheak]

Problem with all these King James guys, is that they elevate it at almost the same level as Christ Himself. The Word of God will be preserved. Flame away, your position is indefensible.

[delacoert]

I am merely here to let Him, God, speak His truth with the power of His Word that put on flesh.

That is a good attitude -- one that is humble and teachable, apparently.

In I Cor. 11:2-16, it appears that scripture teaches an obedient, Christian woman must cover her head. How can you ignore that?

[patlin]

NO dictionary defines ‘mislead’ as meaning to pass final sentencing on someone that makes one the final ‘judge’ over a man's future destination. The word ‘judge’ is also frequently misused as ‘judge’ has several different applications. For one, there is the judging as one does when selecting fruit and then there is judging as passing sentence on someone. We are called to the former but we are to abstain from the latter.

1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Luk 8:5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it. Luk 8:6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture. Luk 8:7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it. Luk 8:8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. Luk 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Luk 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. Luk 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. Luk 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

[STYRO]

You guys rock!

[patlin]

In context, 1 Cor 11 begins by speaking that Messiah is the covering for the husband and the covering for the husband then is the same covering for the wife. But let's set that aside and read verses 13-15.

1Co 11:13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? 14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

Our covering is defined by nature around us and who sustains all nature around us. It is the Word of God that sustains all life and that Word of God put on flesh and it is through Him that our sins are covered before the Father as long as we have it in our hearts to remain faithful to the Word of God that put on flesh to cover our sins.

There is also another place that Paul speaks of the believing woman being the covering for the unbelieving husband, so one must be sure not to take Paul out of context.

1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

So our covering is the same as that of nature no matter the sex, male or female, because as long as the believing stays under Messiah's covering, then God still has the ability to work His work in bringing the unbelieving one into belief.

Judaism and many other religions have twisted the Word of God to their own destruction by putting burdens on the children of God where God put no such burdens such head coverings and no cooking on the Sabbath. NO WHERE in Scripture will one find such commands as these. Even certain ancient Jewish rabbis agree there are no such commands from God in regards to head coverings as well no cooking on the Sabbath. These were the true priests of God and the kind that left Pharisaic legalism, such as Paul did, to walk in Spirit and Truth.

[delacoert]

NO dictionary defines ‘mislead’ as meaning to pass final sentencing on someone that makes one the final ‘judge’ over a man's future destination. The word ‘judge’ is also frequently misused as ‘judge’ has several different applications.

You used the word 'mislead' in your judgement of "KJV evangelists."

It appears that you are really quite nuanced when you say that you do not judge.

[delacoert]

There is also another place that Paul speaks of the believing woman being the covering for the unbelieving husband, so one must be sure not to take Paul out of context.

So other scriptures provide light in properly interpreting and understanding. Taking "the whole counsel of God” as in Acts 20:27, is necessary?

[editor-surveyor]

Yeshua is the Rock!

[editor-surveyor]

>> “Jesus said, GO TO the Holy Spirit NOT read the bible..” <<

.
Nonsense!

How many times did Yeshua say “it is written?”

Yeshua refered to the written scriptures in EVERY teaching that he presented. He rejected all that was not in accordance with his scriptures.

Tokanot!

[hosepipe]

How many times did Yeshua say “it is written?”

---

He was a Rabbi.. why not?.. it was expected of him by corrupted clergy to provide proof of religious treason..

So he used “THEIR” scripture to expose them.. of “their” spiritual treason..
The Jewish Rabbi’s used the Torah... much the same... as Christian RAbbi’s use the New Testament now..

To lead AWAY from GOD.. toward their dogma’s.. and “their church’s”.. i.e. sheep pen’s..
Little has changed..

Some worship the bible and some bypass the bible altogether and worship their church, no middleman(except clergy).. which may be more honest..
Idolatry in your face.. an idol need not be a graven image.. merely a perceived one..

[patlin]

Define ‘whole council of God’ as you believe it to be.

[robowombat]

Much of the venom in the KJV dispute seems to originate with James Ruckman or his followers. Ruckman strikes me as the classic example of someone who went into the ministry for all the wrong reasons and a couple of them are using the pulpit to exorcise his own demons and using the pulpit as a ticket to psychological power satisfaction.

[patlin]

You say I passed judgment, now i ask you to define what that judgment is you claim I made. Is it passing sentence or is it discerning the fruit whether it be good or bad? Did I say someone is going here or there or did I merely state a fact of the state of the fruit?

[patlin]

I assure you the ONLY reason I am using the KJV is because that is the version of Scripture that is used against me for who I follow and who I choose to imitate as Paul told us to do.

1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Better translated as ...

1Co 11:1 Become imitators of me, as I also am of Messiah.

[editor-surveyor]

“Their scripture” was his scripture.

[patlin]

“he used “THEIR” scripture”

So then when Paul wrote to Timothy, that means Timothy also had a different Scripture to follow than we do?

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Now since the "New Testament" as we know it today did not exist in Paul or Timothy's time, and neither of them even had a clue that the letters they wrote would become part the "Scriptures" for "our time", just what Scriptures did Timothy know from his childhood that fitted him for his work for God through his belief in Jesus as Messiah if not the only 'Written Word of God' that existed until the 4th century AD?

FYI ... the only word used for "Law" as in the "Law of Moses" is the Greek word "nomos". The Greek word "dogma" translated as ordinances in the KJV in Col 2:14 nailing to the cross, only pertains to the laws and decrees made by men, NOT by God.

G1378 Total Occurrences: 6 δογμα (2) Dan_6:12, Luk_2:1 δογμασιν (2) Eph_2:15, Col_2:14 δογματα (1) Act_16:4 δογματων (1) Act_17:7

G1378 Total LXX Occurrences: 12 δογμα (10) Dan_2:13, Dan_3:10, Dan_3:29, Dan_4:6, Dan_6:8-10 (3), Dan_6:12, Dan_6:15, Dan_6:26 δογματι (2) Dan_3:12, Dan_6:13

[Chaguito]

“...as long as in our hearts we are doing our best to obey the Father as the Son obeyed the Father.”

Can you tell me where doing our best is in the New Testament?

[patlin]

Can you show me where God outlines all the intricate details as exactly how do do everything? Or is it that just perhaps He leaves certain parts of it for us to discern in our hearts whether we think we are truly leaving it up to Him to lead us or are we relying on the ‘dogma’ of man to tell us how to guard and do His Word?

Deu 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no. 3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they (those who read aloud only from the Law of Moses from the seat of Moses) bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

In other words, when they are done, they then leave the seat of Moses to preach to the crowd how to guard and do Moses according to their dogmas.

Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. ... 13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

And how do we know the disciples continued in the tradition spoken of by Jesus of the reading of Moses every Sabbath?

Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath day. 22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole assembly,

Doing our best means learning as we ‘grow’ in Messiah and not making the same error over and over again when we come to the knowledge that it is an error by the hearing of Moses being read every Sabbath.