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How come more people don’t go to church?
The Deacon's Bench ^ | April 4, 2013 | Deacon Greg Kandra

Posted on 04/06/2013 3:19:57 PM PDT by NYer

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To: Sacajaweau

Attending Church — Isn’t that one of the Commandments?


121 posted on 04/06/2013 8:34:25 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Jane Austen

There have been Italian immigrants, German immigrants, Polish immigrants, Filipino immigrants, Japanese immigratns — and more — all of them Catholic.

Encourage your friend to talk to these immigrants and ask them to become naturalize citizens.

What you are hearing is only an excuse.


122 posted on 04/06/2013 8:40:03 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: bmwcyle

Then pray for them and sit in another pew.

Excuse?


123 posted on 04/06/2013 8:41:31 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Remember the Sabbath does not neccesarily equate to going to church does it?

Organized religion lost me when they started building bigger and bigger churches and parsonages. Money that could have been used as it should be..to help. Not to glorify the individual church or attract a large congregation (translation..more money).


124 posted on 04/06/2013 9:29:33 PM PDT by berdie
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To: berdie

Umm... they built some pretty big churches during the Renascence etc. Ever see some of those old cathedrals?


125 posted on 04/06/2013 9:33:36 PM PDT by kjam22 (my newest music video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7gNI9bWO3s)
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To: kjam22

Sure I have.

But the “stadium churches” are recent in this country. Oh yeah, I know there are big churches here as well.

The point I am trying so clumsily to make is..the money spent on these enormous structures could actually be better spent on charitible activities.


126 posted on 04/06/2013 9:41:08 PM PDT by berdie
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To: berdie
One of our biggest problems is T-V. When I was a youngster, we didn't have T-V, and Sunday Morning was when you went to Church. Now there are so many things competing for peoples time that Church has become of lesser importance. Not that it is right, but that is the way it is. Now that I am old I am glad for the Church Foundation My Mother provided for us/ I just wish more people were introduced to the Christan Belief.
127 posted on 04/06/2013 9:55:05 PM PDT by BooBoo1000 (Some times I wake up grumpy,,, other times I just let her sleep.)
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To: NYer

I think people do what is expected in their social circle. If they aren’t going to run into any of their friends at church, there is less incentive to go. People do not choose their friends based on whether they have a common faith, nor do they choose where to live based on whether there is a good church nearby.

I think this is one of those things where a little peer pressure and/or encouragement could be a good thing. There is a church near me whose members, when I met them in other settings, immediately managed to mention the church and encourage me and my family to come by. I never hear anybody doing that from my Catholic parish. In fact some people look a little embarrassed when I recognize them in a different setting and refer to the fact that I saw them at church.


128 posted on 04/06/2013 10:09:29 PM PDT by married21
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To: BooBoo1000

I agree. When I was a kid Sunday morning and Wednesday night..you went to church. Because that is what you did. I am grateful for that foundation.

I live on a lake. About 30 years ago my husband and I would go fishing in the early morning hours. Including Sunday mornings. The preacher at the church would come around, in a small boat, and gather up the Sunday morning fishermen for a sermon on the lake. He truly was a “fisherman” because his congregation at the church increased. He wasn’t young even then..I miss him. He knew his Bible and taught it well.


129 posted on 04/06/2013 10:09:59 PM PDT by berdie
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To: NYer
On the same subject basically!

Archdiocese of Washington

Finding Jesus where He actually is – A Meditation on the Gospel for the Octave of Easter

By:

In today’s Gospel we see that the Risen Lord appeared to the apostles who were gathered together in one place. The fact that they were gathered in one place is not without significance, for it is there that the Lord appears to them. One of them, as we shall see, was not in the gathering and this missed the blessing of seeing and experiencing the risen Lord. It might be said that Thomas, the absent disciple, blocked his blessing.

Some people want Jesus without the Church. No can do. Jesus is found in his Church, among those who have gathered. There is surely a joy in a personal relationship with Jesus, but the Lord also announced a special presence whenever two or three are gathered in his name (cf Mat 18:20). It is essential for us to discover how Mass attendance, and walking in fellowship with the Church, is essential for us if we want to experience the healing and blessing of the Lord. This Gospel has a lot to say to us about the need for us to gather together find the Lord’s blessing in the community of the Church, in his Word and the Sacraments. Lets look at the gospel in five stages.

I. The Fearful Fellowship – Notice how the text describes the apostles gathering: On the evening of that first day of the week, when the doors were locked, where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews..… These men are frightened, but they are in the right place. It is Sunday, the first day of the week, and they have gathered together. The text says nothing of what they are doing, other than that they have gathered. But in a sense, this is all we need to know, for this will set the stage for blessings and for the presence of the Lord.

And these are men who need a blessing. The locked doors signify their fear of the Jewish authorities. One may also presume that they are discouraged, lacking in hope, even angry. For they have experienced the earthquake that Jesus’ crucifixion was for them. It is true that some of the women in their midst claimed to have seen him alive. But now it is night and there have been no other sightings of which they have heard.

But, thanks be to God, they have gathered. It is not uncommon for those who have “stuff” going on in their lives to retreat, withdraw, even hide. Of course this is probably the worse thing to do. And it would seem that Thomas may have taken this approach, though is absence is not explained. Their gathering, as we shall see, is an essential part of the solution for all that afflicts them. This gathering is the place in which their new hope, new heart and mind will dawn.

And for us too, afflicted in many ways, troubled at times, and joyful at others, there is the critical importance of gathering each Sunday, each first day of the week. Here too for us in every Mass, is the place where the Lord prepares blessings for us. I am powerfully aware at how every Mass I celebrate, especially Sunday Mass, is a source of powerful blessings for me. Not only does God instruct me with his Word, and feed me with his Body and Blood, but he also helps form me through the presence and praise of others, the people I have been privileged to serve. I don’t know where I’d be if it were not for the string and steady support of the People of God, their prayers, their praise, their witness and encouragement.

The Book of Hebrews states well purpose and blessing of our liturgical gatherings:

Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good deeds, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. Heb 10:22-25

So here they are, meeting together, encouraging one another. As we shall see, the Apostles are about to be blessed. But the blessing occurs only the context of the gathering. Thomas, one of the apostles, is missing, and thus he will miss the blessing. This blessing is only for those who are there. And so it is for us who have also have blessings waiting, but only if we are present, gathered for holy Mass. Don’t block your blessings!

II. The Fabulous Fact - And sure enough here comes the blessing, For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them (Matt 18:20). The text from today’s Gospel says, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you.

Suddenly there is a completely new reality, a new hope, a new vision. Note too, there is also a new serenity, a peace, a shalom. For not only do they see and come to experience a wholly new reality, but they also receive an inner peace. Observe again, this is only to those who are present.

And here is a basic purpose of walking in Fellowship with the Church and of the gathering we call the sacred liturgy. For it is here that we are invited to encounter the Living Lord, who ministers to us and offers us peace. Through his word, we are increasingly enabled to see things in a wholly new way, a way which gives us hope, clarity and confidence. Our lives are reordered. Inwardly too, a greater peace is meant to come upon us in an increasing way as the truth of this newer vision begins to transform us, giving us a new mind and heart. And, looking to the altar we draw confidence that the Lord has prepared a table for me in the sight of my enemies and my cup is overflowing (Ps 23). The Eucharist is thus the sign of our victory and election and, as we receive the Body and the Blood of the Lord we are gradually transformed into the very likeness of Christ.

Elaboration: Is this your experience of the gathering we call the Mass? Is it a transformative reality, or just a tedious ritual?

As for me, I can say that I am being changed, transformed into a new man, into Christ, by this weekly, indeed, daily gathering we call the Mass. I have seen my mind and heart changed, and renewed. I see things more clearly, have greater hope, joy and serenity. I cannot imagine what my life would be like, were it not for this gathering of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass where Jesus is present to me and says, “Shalom, peace be with you.” Over the years, I am a changed man.

Yes, the Mass works, it transforms, gives a new mind and heart. Don’t bloc your blessings, be there every Sunday.

III. Forgiving Fidelity - Next comes something quite extraordinary that also underscores the necessity of gathering and simply cannot take place in a privatistic notion of faith. The text says, As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

In this remarkable moment, the Lord gives the apostles the power to forgive sin. Note that he is not simply giving the ability to announce that we are forgiven. He is giving them a juridical power to forgive, or in certain cases, to withhold or delay forgiveness. This is extraordinary. Not only has he given this authority to men (cf Matt 9:8), but he has also given it to men, all of whom but one, had abandoned him at his crucifixion. These are men well aware of their shortcomings! Perhaps only with this awareness can he truly trust them with such power.

Here is the heart of Divine Mercy Sunday: the Lord’s mercy for us, and that mercy available to us through his presence on earth, his mystical Body, the Church.

Elaboration: There are those who deny Confession is a Biblical sacrament.But here it is, right here in this biblical text. There are other texts in Scripture that also show confession to be quite biblical. For example:

  1. Also many of those who were now believers came, confessing and divulging their practices. (Acts 19:18).
  2. Is any one of you sick? He should call the presbyters of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to one another and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. (James 5:14-16).

Many consider it sufficient merely to speak to God privately about their sins. But the Scriptures once again instruct us away from a solitary notion and bid us to approach the Church. The Lord gives the apostles authority to adjudicate and then absolve or retain sin, but this presupposes that someone has first approach them interpersonally. Paul too was approached by the believers in Ephesus who made open declaration of their sins. The Book of James also places the forgiveness of sins in the context of the calling of the presbyters, the priests of the Church and sees this as the fulfillment of “declare your sins to one another…the prayer of the righteous man has great power.”

Thus, again, there is a communal context for blessing, not merely a private one. More on the biblical roots of confession here: Confession in Biblical

IV. Faltering Fellowship - We have already noted that Thomas blocked his blessing by not being present. The text says, Thomas, called Didymus, one of the Twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples said to him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see the mark of the nails in his hands and put my finger into the nail marks and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

Thomas exhibits faltering fellowship in two ways.

First he is not with the other apostles on resurrection evening. Thus he misses the blessing of seeing and experiencing the resurrection and the Lord.

Secondly, Thomas exhibits faltering fellowship by refusing to believe the testimony of the Church that the Lord had risen.

One of the most problematic aspects of many people’s faith is that they do not understand that the Church is an object of faith. In the Creed every Sunday, we profess to believe in God the Father, and to believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, and to believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of life. But we are not done yet. We go on to say that we believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. We know and believe what we do about Jesus Christ on the basis of what the Church hands on from the apostles. Some say, “No, I believe in what the Bible says.” But the Bible is a Book of the Church. God has given it to us through the Church who, by God’s grace, collected and compiled its contents and vouches for the veracity of the Scriptures. Without the Church there would be no Bible.

So in rejecting the testimony of the Church, Thomas is breaking fellowship and refusing to believe in what the Church, established by Christ to speak in his name (e.g. Lk 24:48; Lk 10:16; Matt 18:17; Jn 14:26; 1 Tim 3:15; inter al.). And so do we falter in our fellowship with the Church if we refuse to believe the testimony of the Church in matters of faith and morals. Here too is a privatization of faith, a rejection of fellowship, and a refusal to gather with the Church and accept what she proclaims through her Scriptures, Tradition, and the catechism.

But note, as long as Thomas is not present, he has blocked his blessings. He must return to gather with the others in order to overcome his struggle with the faith.

V. Firmer Faith - Thomas returns to fellowship with the other Apostles. As we do not know the reason for his absence, his return is also unexplained. Some may want to simply chalk up his absence to some insignificant factor such as merely being busy, or in ill health or some other possible and largely neutral factor. But John seldom gives us details for neutral reasons. Further, Thomas DOES refuse to believe the testimony of the others, which is not a neutral fact.

But praise God, he is now back with the others and now in the proper place for a blessing. Whatever his struggle with the faith, he has chosen to work it out in the context of fellowship with the Church. He has gathered with the others. And now comes the blessing.

You know the story, but the point here for us is that whatever our doubts and difficulties with the faith, we need to keep gathering with the Church. In some ways faith is like a stained glass window that is only best appreciated when one goes inside the Church. Outside, there may seem very little about it that is beautiful. It may even look dirty and leaden. But once inside and adjusted to the light the window radiates beauty.

It is often this way with the faith. I have personally found that some of the more difficult teachings of the Church could only be best appreciated by me after years of fellowship and instruction by the Church in both here liturgy and in other ways. As my fellowship and communion have grown more intense, so has my faith become clearer and more firm.

Thomas, now that he is inside the room sees the Lord. Outside he did not see and doubted. The eyes of our faith see far more than our fleshly eyes. But in order to see and experience our blessings, we must gather, must be in the Church.

Finally, it is a provocative but essential truth that Christ is found in the Church. Some want Christ without the Church. No can do. He is found in the gathering of the Church, the ekklesia, the assembly of those called out. Whatever aspects of his presence are found outside are but mere glimpses, shadows emanating from the Church. He must be sought where he is found, among sinners in his Church. The Church is his Body, and his Bride. Here he is found. That his presence may be “felt” alone on some mountaintop can never be compared to the words of the priest, “Behold the Lamb of God.”

Thomas found him, but only when he gathered with the others. It is Christ’s will to gather us and unite us (Jn 17:21). Congregavit nos in unum Christi amor (the love of Christ has gathered us in one).

Image: From Florence

This song says that we “need each other to survive.” Don’t block you blessings, get to Church on Sunday


130 posted on 04/06/2013 10:45:46 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: All
Don’t block you blessings,
get to Church on Sunday

131 posted on 04/06/2013 10:47:27 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer
I was going then my job took up my Sundays. I worked Sunday morning and at 4:00 I was dead tired from coming off a four day swing shift schedule. It was a job which served the elderly and sick. They needed heat, A/C and lights etc. I worked in a health care facility keeping the building functional. Then one night about 18 years ago I suddenly retired and now I can't go.

The last service I attended was my Dad's funeral in 2011. Despite doubling up on medication I was still having severe spasms or seizures like crazy. Otherwise I haven't been to church in about 18 years except for my oldest daughters wedding and dads funeral.

If I go and I'm disruptive to others and can't concentrate enough to enjoy it myself what's the point? My church consist of either a quite walk alone on a favorite river bank trail. I can think, more important I can pray, & I'm not spasming every few seconds to certain sounds.

132 posted on 04/06/2013 11:14:31 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: cva66snipe
There are some persons who simply can not stand being in public. For them a one on one interaction they can handle. But a Sunday school class or a church? No. My dad was such a person. A man who loved The Lord, brought me and Sis up to know The Lord. Dad was what they now call a social phobic. He didn't dislike people he disliked crowds. Also something happened to him early in his teens he didn't get over. He was on a football team and was at a summer training camp. The coach called on him to lead the prayer. For some those things come as easy as their next breath for others they freeze. He didn't like public speaking and couldn't. His job required him to interact with customers it was one on one so he was OK with it. As soon as a job came open inside in an equipment room he took it.

Dad could talk to me or anyone including a lost uncle about The Lord. He didn't receive Christ in a church. He received Christ on a ridge side as a teenager hunting and stopping to sit down with a pocket Bible he had. In the back was a profession of faith. He signed it, laid it down where he was at, and a few years later went before a local church for public profession of faith and Baptism.

He did feel The Lord had blessed him in many ways and we didn't have to do without growing up as far as clothes meals etc. Nor did any of his brothers or sister s families. He was the one they came to when rent wasn't there or groceries. Outside of family and a hand full of friends he kept to himself.

My dad also had a touch of what I do. I was picking up on it. The man loved his family as much as any person could. But family gatherings were hard on him. After a meal I'd find dad in a quiet part of the house. The noise got to him.

GOD judges us all each according to our faith, works in His name, as well as our sins for which as believers we give account for. You can go to church every day the doors are open and not know Christ. No church membership holds the keys to God's Kingdom the key is in your heart and your own receiving or rejecting Jesus Christ. He gives us all a clear choice. I thank GOD for giving me a Dad and a Mother who taught me a foundation and faith to fall back on back in my not so wiser acts of youth were behind me. It served me well in my adult life to follow. I know my calling The Lord gave me for my time here and I do that the best I can.

It doesn't matter what Brother Whoever or Father Whoever thinks about you nor even what the person in a church pew next to you thinks about you. It matters what you think about GOD and Jesus Christ. Open your ears and hearts to Him and listen. And this old sinner has a long way to go.

133 posted on 04/07/2013 12:25:32 AM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Salvation

No it’s not.


134 posted on 04/07/2013 2:42:00 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Salvation; Sacajaweau
"Attending Church — Isn’t that one of the Commandments?"

It's not one of the commandments but the book of Hebrews makes it clear it is a requirement for Christians. Heb 10:24-25. All I've heard on this thread is people saying they don't go to church because it no longer has anything for them. The pastors are boring, they don't like the music, the people don't appeal to them, blah, blah, blah. That's not what church is about. Church is about what YOU bring to it not what it can do for you. Church is a time for service and sacrifice. A time to worship God for what he has done. A time to fellowship with other Christians to lift them up. How are you going to know the needs, hardships and hurts of fellow Christians if you don't fellowship with them? How do you help them and serve them? It appears people don't go the church because they are self-centered and have hearts of stone.

135 posted on 04/07/2013 3:35:20 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: longfellow
I don’t go because of all the pedophilia associated with it in the news. Clean up your act Vatican and I will go back. I want to clarify, I don’t need a building to read my bible in. I believe the Catholic Church has been undermined by the homosexuals to rot the religion from the inside. The same is being done to our constitution right now. Come to think of it, by a guy who has been accused of being known as ‘Bath House Barry’ in some parts of Chicago. His church was a well known matchmaker of homosexual men (4 mysteriously murdered associated with BB) with women for marriage. But that’s not the way it is being covered in the news.

Try a non-denominational church that is firmly Bible-based. Religion is not necessary for spiritual awareness and growth. The more believers there are out in the mix, the better the Word can be carried - our calling is to glory in our salvation and try to carry the Word - can't do that cooped up in the house reading your Bible...share it with those who need to hear it!

God Bless

136 posted on 04/07/2013 4:02:50 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: Salvation

No, I will not.


137 posted on 04/07/2013 5:32:00 AM PDT by bmwcyle (People who do not study history are destine to believe really ignorant statements.)
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To: Salvation

The Obama voters in the church should know better. They read Bible I do.


138 posted on 04/07/2013 5:36:29 AM PDT by bmwcyle (People who do not study history are destine to believe really ignorant statements.)
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To: Salvation

This is what will kill the church. I have to put up with them at work. I do have to walk in a church.


139 posted on 04/07/2013 6:12:53 AM PDT by bmwcyle (People who do not study history are destine to believe really ignorant statements.)
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To: NYer; All

The Church...The Bride of Christ.

if you look at it like that then you would want to be a part of it.

So many speak badly of His Bride.
So many have made His Bride a show.
So many have tried to turn His Bride into a prostitute.
So many have soiled His Brides White gown.

So those that don’t care about the sanctity of marriage hope to continue to defile the Bride.

Stand Strong Bride of Christ. Be faithful. The Bridegroom will come for you soon.

Just a few rambling thoughts
RB<{{><


140 posted on 04/07/2013 6:33:29 AM PDT by Rightly Biased (Avenge me Girls AVENEGE ME!!!! ( I don't have any son's))
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